Does Threaten directly subtract the PDR

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thread starter kkhachadur Nov 05 2010 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

I'm strongly considering going pally after Big Bang. Hence I've been reading up on its skill changes, and I am particularly confused how threaten will work. Will threaten drop the PDR rate by 20% at bosses? (PDR = physical dmg reduction) Here is an example of what I mean: Blast = 20% PDR Threaten = 20% PDR So if zak has 50% PDR, does it mean a Pally using blast and threaten will do 50%-20%-20% = 10% PDR? If it works differently, please explain how specifically, or post a source. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thx.

My Characters: PyrozeaL - 154 Scania Bow Master

fenzhongwu 11/05/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Maybe?

My Characters: aranfen - 116 Windia Aran in Misery

Skrato 11/06/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

No, it works on their defense not the PDR. Theres a discussion on this in the forum about my guide. Let me dig it up : http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/1598992/26/#30373271

My Characters: Hypocrism - 147 Windia Paladin

kkhachadur + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] Skrato : No, it works on their defense not the PDR. Theres a discussion on this in the forum about my guide. [/quote] The post directly after that suggests that defense was replaced by PDR tho. I'm not too sure what to make of this, any idea?

My Characters: PyrozeaL - 154 Scania Bow Master

Skrato 11/06/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

kkhachadur : Take from it that we don't know but that if it affected PDR, we would know because that would be game breaking and Paladins would be wanted in EVERY boss run.

My Characters: Hypocrism - 147 Windia Paladin

Viaje + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] kkhachadur : The post directly after that suggests that defense was replaced by PDR tho. I'm not too sure what to make of this, any idea? [/quote] That would be news to me. Looking into it. It does seem like there isn't a defense stat for new monsters. As of 8/28/10, Fiel said, "I'm calling this one plausible. I don't see the MDEF/WDEF calculation reduction anywhere yet." And in the most recent extractions (Greece), mobs don't seem to have PDDamage, only PDRate (10%). Still checking, but either "Ignore Defense" does nothing or it affects PDRate. Either way, it seems WDef/PDDamage is no longer factored into damage. I say ask Mancartia as she follows SP more than I do. EDIT: http://www.northperry.net/showthread.php?t=32320

My Characters: Zyrise - 145 Khaini Paladin

ShMaiz3R 11/06/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Like posted above, bosses and mobs will have no DEF in the first place. So yes, Threaten (along with DEF ignoring skills such Blast/Hero's new skill/Sacrifice) will work directly on PDR, and all normal mobs will have a default PDR of 10% which increases whenever level difference increases. Note that Threaten will no longer work on Pink Bean. And btw, even though KMS went through a few patches after BB patch to get the new updated stats (including PDR) for bosses/mobs, expect GMS to get all of that together with BB in one patch, because that's what just happened in JMST.

My Characters: Zexord - 175 Scania Paladin

kkhachadur + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] ShMaiz3R : Note that Threaten will no longer work on Pink Bean. [/quote] Thx for this input. It's good new's to hear that it will affect PDR. Do you know if threaten will still apply to zak/scar/cwk, even though pink bean has been ruled out? Also if possible, list the source (or vid) which said that threaten won't work on Pink Bean. Thx in advance.

My Characters: PyrozeaL - 154 Scania Bow Master

Viaje 11/06/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] ShMaiz3R : Like posted above, bosses and mobs will have no DEF in the first place. So yes, Threaten (along with DEF ignoring skills such Blast/Hero's new skill/Sacrifice) will work directly on PDR, and all normal mobs will have a default PDR of 10% which increases whenever level difference increases. Note that Threaten will no longer work on Pink Bean. [/quote] Which leads to the original question: "So if zak has 50% PDR, does it mean a Pally using blast and threaten will do 50%-20%-20% = 10% PDR?" No way I can confirm, but I suspect it works by multiplication. So, using Threaten, Zak's PDR would become 50% - (50% * .2) = 40%. Otherwise, getting it to 0 would be way too easy. [quote] ShMaiz3R : And btw, even though KMS went through a few patches after BB patch to get the new updated stats (including PDR) for bosses/mobs, expect GMS to get all of that together with BB in one patch, because that's what just happened in JMST. [/quote] I didn't realize JMST already got the data. That's one region SP doesn't post extractions on. I'm looking forward to seeing how quickly they get all of Big Bang since that should give us a good idea of how close together the parts will be in GMS. [quote] kkhachadur : Thx for this input. It's good new's to hear that it will affect PDR. Do you know if threaten will still apply to zak/scar/cwk, even though pink bean has been ruled out? Also if possible, list the source (or vid) which said that threaten won't work on Pink Bean. Thx in advance. [/quote] Fiel said it. http://www.northhperry.net/showthread.php?t=31480

My Characters: Zyrise - 145 Khaini Paladin

ShMaiz3R + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] Viaje : Which leads to the original question: "So if zak has 50% PDR, does it mean a Pally using blast and threaten will do 50%-20%-20% = 10% PDR?" No way I can confirm, but I suspect it works by multiplication. So, using Threaten, Zak's PDR would become 50% - (50% * .2) = 40%. Otherwise, getting it to 0 would be way too easy. [/quote] Yeah multiplication of course. There is no way for a boss to have the same or a close PDR as normal mobs. Edit: I was talking about Threaten alone, not combined with any other skill.

My Characters: Zexord - 175 Scania Paladin

Viaje + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] ShMaiz3R : Yeah multiplication of course. There is no way for a boss to have the same or a close PDR as normal mobs. [/quote] Actually, there is. 1 - Be a Dark Knight. Granted, this isn't technically the same thing since you're not decreasing anything; Sacrifice just ignores defense completely. 2 - Be a Hero. With Threaten (from a Pali, obviously) + Combat Mastery, that's a 60% ignore so 50% becomes 20%, which is what some normal monsters are. Casting Panic with max Combat Mastery would result in ignoring 100% of defense, but this, of course, would only occur whenever you had enough combo sigils to cast it. 3 - Potential. All weapons, including Kataras, can get a 30% Ignore Defense ability. Stack this with the 20% ignore most classes get, and you can get HT and Zakum down to 25% PDRate. Bring a Pali and you've got them down to 15%. Of course, 2&3 can be combined, so you could have a Hero constantly ignoring 70% of any monster's PDRate while solo. On a side note, the Ignore Defense ability has suddenly began to look a lot more enticing now that W.Def is out the window. While most monsters have 10%/20% PDRate, a weapon with with 30% Ignore Def will do 15% more damage on Zakum/HT and a massive 21% more on Pink Bean (assuming ignored PDRate works on him at all; haven't checked). Seeing as %-damage caps out at 12% on +121 weapons, Ignore Def would be better in a bossing situation. not be the ! - Revelation - ! Ignore Defense 30% is better than 30%-Boss Damage on Pink Bean. Let's say you'd deal 100 damage on PB. 30%-Boss Damage: 100 * 1.3 (Boss damage) * .3 (PB PDRate) = 39 Ignore Defense 30%: 100 * (.3 + (.7 * .3)) = 51 On bosses with 50% PDRate, Ignore Def 30% = Boss Damage 30%. Area bosses only have a 30% PDRate, meaning Boss Damage is better. Of course, on anything else, Ignore Def is better than Boss Damage, but %-damage is better than both. DISCLAIMER: This all hinges on PDRate and Ignore Defense working the way described previously, but, with W.Def out the window, I can't see any other way for it to work.

My Characters: Zyrise - 145 Khaini Paladin