Are you atheist?

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thread starter JackAstors Aug 20 2010 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

As the title says, are you atheist? Alot of people I know in real life are atheists, including myself. Looking at the demographics for atheism in other countries, there seems to be alot of it.

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aznseal 08/20/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] NapalmDe4th : Absolutely wrong. You have the burden of proof since you have made the claim. You can certainly chalk it up to faith, but the following complications rise: 1. If faith is a relationship with Jesus/God. This presumes that God/Jesus exist, therefore it cannot be used as a reason to believe in God/Jesus, or else you'll be using circular reasoning. 2. If faith is a fideism, then you must concede that another explanation for existence, natural phenomena, etc. is more logically probable, or risk undermining your beliefs. This is a self-refuting position, as by defying logic, you open the door to a number of absurdities and there is no reason why your illogical beliefs should be right over a handful of other illogical beliefs (best illustrated by having "faith" in the Invisible Pink Unicorn). Also no matter what i say about the bible, you'll continue to disregard it because it isn't scientific so we're back to square one. And for the "then your God doesn't exist" that again is your personal opinion and it isn't any more valid than mine. Just an expansion of Hoyle's Fallacy. Dotted lines indicate imaginary things, just sayin'. That is, based on logic. All fine and well, but to obey someone, you must be reasonably sure that the being you're obeying is real. That is, obedience presumes existence, so it cannot be used to prove that something is real. The Bible is never specific on how time affects God, although it does appear as if God does run on the basis of time (3,000 years or so is like one day to God; setting stars in the universe for the purpose of timekeeping in the heavens. This would be completely unnecessary if God did not run on time.). Furthermore, if you interpret Genesis as a metaphor, a number of complications arise, such as the correct way of interpreting the Bible, why there is no indication that Genesis is a metaphor, which parts of the Bible are metaphors and should be treated as such, etc. [/quote] You are again trying to argue the existence of God which i have no desire to argue. I believe he's real, you don't. There isn't anything more we can do but butt heads. Religion isn't based on proofs and theorems. I've said it once and i'll say it again: You're free to believe whatever you want. I don't care. All you're doing is what almost every other atheist on basil does, and that's trying to use proofs and theorems. Not everything is broken down into a college course on logic and ethics. If you want to treat religion as a joke, go for it.

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SteelersFTW 08/20/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] Wittgenstein : Prove it. Okay. Not me you're talking to, so I'll just ignore this part. What are you trying to prove? Because I've been losing millions of brain cells every time I read one of your posts. If you believe that you can't prove God with logic/reason, then nobody here can have a debate with you. Besides, nothing is "beyond logic". [/quote] Haha :D, so original and humorous! True, I believe that nobody can prove or disprove God with logic that would be created by God Himself if He exists, because He would be above such logic. But proving/disproving God on that basis is not the only dimension to this debate, and people tend to get hung up on this one thing because of close-mindedness and never seem to want to talk about anything else. Please don't insult my intelligence, not for my sake, but for your own. It only makes you look like a prick when you come into a conversation and make accusations.

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Gino 08/20/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] aznseal : You are again trying to argue the existence of God which i have no desire to argue. I believe he's real, you don't. There isn't anything more we can do but butt heads. Religion isn't based on proofs and theorems. I've said it once and i'll say it again: You're free to believe whatever you want. I don't care. All you're doing is what almost every other atheist on basil does, and that's trying to use proofs and theorems. Not everything is broken down into a college course on logic and ethics. If you want to treat religion as a joke, go for it. [/quote] See, but you're kind of an exception. You never claim that god is real. You just say that you personally believe in god, and that's just fine. But if you read other, more unreasonable posts, you'd understand why people feel the need to argue against them. I'm honestly surprised I haven't found a post in this thread that says "the bible predicts the future", "evolution is not real", or any other typical response for this kind of thread.

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Wittgenstein + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

aznseal + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

And for everyone saying God doesn't exist due the lack of proof: Religion is not based on your definition of proof. What I or many other Christians think as proof, y'all dismiss as ludicrous. It's a never ending cycle. EDIT: above I have many reasons as to why i believe but i don't feel like posting them all because 1. It'll take too long 2. You'll go lololol science or gtho Also judging by your posts, you failed to see my circle analogy. You live in a circle with a solid circumference where everything inside the circle is science, the earth, people, etc but nothing can enter/leave the circle where i live in a circle with a dotted circumference where everything inside is the same as your circle but the circumference allows for God to enter/exit. An example is that I believe in God-lead evolution.

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Gino + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] aznseal : And for everyone saying God doesn't exist due the lack of proof: Religion is not based on your definition of proof. What I or many other Christians think as proof, y'all dismiss as ludicrous. It's a never ending cycle. EDIT: above I have many reasons as to why i believe but i don't feel like posting them all because 1. It'll take too long 2. You'll go lololol science or gtho [/quote] Not to offend you, but it is kinda ludicrous from a neutral point of view. Not only would atheists not believe you, but a person from a different country and culture wouldn't believe you either. It's not really proof. Also, steelers, can you cut out the lying? I was taking you seriously before, but now it seems like you've been trolling me all along...

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NapalmDe4th + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] aznseal : You are again trying to argue the existence of God which i have no desire to argue. I believe he's real, you don't. There isn't anything more we can do but butt heads. Religion isn't based on proofs and theorems. I've said it once and i'll say it again: You're free to believe whatever you want. I don't care. All you're doing is what almost every other atheist on basil does, and that's trying to use proofs and theorems. Not everything is broken down into a college course on logic and ethics. If you want to treat religion as a joke, go for it. [/quote] I'm not forcing you to believe anything, but I am criticizing your religious views because you posted them in this thread, which is open for every Basiler to read and respond to. I don't treat religion as a joke (not when debating against Theists anyway) but I certainly wont allow fallacious "because of faith" logic go without comment.

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MattHeafy 08/20/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

I mean, I'm open to the idea of being a God or higher being but there isn't anything that shows me such a thing exists. Most of the time people place blind faith into something they cant even see with their own eyes.

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aznseal 08/20/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] Gino : Not to offend you, but it is kinda ludicrous from a neutral point of view. Also, steelers, can you cut out the lying? I was taking you seriously before, but now it seems like you've been trolling me all along... [/quote] That's the thing: it's not ludicrous from a neutral point of view because a neutral point of view is from an agnostic point of view and they're open to the idea of a higher deity. The point of view of God not existing is an atheistic and the point of view where God exists is religious. Obviously they're going to think differently.

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Translink 08/20/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

You only see a lot of Atheism in North America. In other parts of the world, more people are religious than Atheist.

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SteelersFTW + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] Gino : Not to offend you, but it is kinda ludicrous from a neutral point of view. Not only would atheists not believe you, but a person from a different country and culture wouldn't believe you either. It's not really proof. Also, steelers, can you cut out the lying? I was taking you seriously before, but now it seems like you've been trolling me all along... [/quote] Lying about what exactly? I did exaggerate about how close-minded you are, but you really haven't shown me any reason to believe you are any more of a person than I have made you out to be. Edit: And when did you take me seriously? I never got any validation from you that you gave anything I said a fighting chance.

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NapalmDe4th 08/20/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

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Gino + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] aznseal : That's the thing: it's not ludicrous from a neutral point of view because a neutral point of view is from an agnostic point of view and they're open to the idea of a higher deity. The point of view of God not existing is an atheistic and the point of view where God exists is religious. Obviously they're going to think differently. [/quote] Actually, it depends on what you're trying to prove and with what evidence. I'll give an example. Saying "The universe was created" and "the universe is deadborn and timeless" is equally valid to a neutral person. Neither have any proof to back their claims up and both are equally possible. However, when you start adding specific things into the mix like "god is omnipotent" or "the universe started as a strip of matter" then you'd have a more biased point of view. Consider that others would have trouble believing in your particular god as well. A zeus believer would not believe in jesus, yet you do not believe in zeus. Why is your idea any more valid than his? I can agree with the possibility that there is a creator, however, I refuse to believe that jesus is god, or that god has special powers. God, to me, is simply the creator. It doesn't have to intervene in the everyday life of humans, be immortal, or even know that we exist. The only requirement I place on god is that it created the universe. [quote] SteelersFTW : Lying about what exactly? I did exaggerate about how close-minded you are, but you really haven't shown me any reason to believe you are any more of a person than I have made you out to be. Edit: And when did you take me seriously? I never got any validation from you that you gave anything I said a fighting chance. [/quote] [quote] SteelersFTW : He is omnipotent and omniscient [/quote] [quote] SteelersFTW : I'm not saying "God can do it" at all. [/quote] You do that in almost every other post.

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ScrambledEgg 08/20/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] MattHeafy : I mean, I'm open to the idea of being a God or higher being but there isn't anything that shows me such a thing exists. Most of the time people place blind faith into something they cant even see with their own eyes. [/quote] This whole concept is based on already set premises; almost everything that's been said has been said. There are already arguments against what you say, and your rebuttals will play out exactly into one of the many set arguments. In the end, there are key questions and concepts, and that if you believe in one aspect of that concept, the other possibility collapses. Basically, we judge our surroundings through interactions. A scientist uses equipment to measure, and others belief they have interacted with the supernatural. Both rely on the premise of their understanding of the interactions. What may be illogical to you may very well be identifiable to someone else. While science promotes the idea of "physical" interactions, who's to say their interactions are just a snowball effect from a misunderstanding? Let's say that the TRUE understanding is a yet unsolved, new rubik's cube. We set a scientist (atheist one) and a shaman (believes in the supernatural) to solve this. Neither can solve it, but they both have gotten equally close. Maybe the scientist has solved 3 sides and is on the verge of another one, while the shaman has 2 sides but is very close in 2 more. In the end, they may have just misinterpreted and have to unscramble the cube to try and solve it another way. In this manner, we actually don't know who's right, but because you feel that the scientist is much closer to the solution, you adhere to his point of view, and start to reject the shaman.

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aznseal 08/20/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] NapalmDe4th : Agnostic: The question of "Does God exist?" is meaningless because humanity will never be able to know. They're not open to the idea, they dismiss any and all possibilities of deity existing as inconsequential to humanity. I think the most neutral point of view would be an educated person who has never heard of God but knows of science. That way, God would be a new concept that, based on his knowledge, reason and logic, would either embrace or discard. [/quote] The little devil's advocate inside of me wants to say "Why should it be science and then religion? Why not the other way around? Why not the same time and let him choose? You advocating science first is already subtle bias towards secularism."

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