Bandits need a buff NOW.

basilmarket.com forums : Bandit to Shadower | 16 posts archived

thread starter uZeira Jul 24 2010 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

A level 40 dual blade damages the same as a level 80 chief bandit. In a year from now I promise you nexon will make a new overpowered class every 2 months just those are going to entirely cost money, you won't even be able to play 1 without buying them.

My Characters: i3anditoLuko - 43 Bera Bandit

d1m3n510nx + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] iFrancisco : FWIW, give me about 1 more week to finish my gear and I'll gladly show you 9.3 in 25 seconds from a Shadower since I am currently not too far off of that [/quote] I'll hold you to it. Sub-30 second Lyka run within the next two weeks, or you admit DBs are overpowered. Though I'm still not sure I believe you -- if it's just a matter of godly potential gear, you'd think we'd see more insanely fast boss solo's from other classes. I've already seen people advertising 127/17 Pescas with +15% attack in Broa. I mean you'd have to be hitting 372k PER SECOND to match his DPS. Even if we assume 1 BS + 1 SB per second, you're only hitting 1480%. Your max damage range in the stat window would have to be well over 25k... and I doubt % equips are going to give you THAT much of a boost. Judging from the video, DBs can do 1 chain + 1 fb about every 3 seconds. Given their mirror image (+60% damage) and thorns buff (expected value of +87.5% damage), and assuming half the attacks on chain and fb do half damage due to being blade attacks, a DB could pull off the same feat with a mere 15k or so max in the stat window -- averaging nearly double our DPS.

My Characters: lDimMaK - 126 Broa Shadower

OmegaTobias + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Shadowers are having a DPM discussion?... realy SHADOWERS? WOAH..... What does it matter if they out dpm us, almost everyone in maple does that. o.o The only difrence now is that DB overpower EVERYONE instead of just us. @ TS If you care for dmg so much at lower level(Even though its not much use at a lower level) then go make one. If they get stronger it doesnt change YOUR playing style now does it?

My Characters: QuickAssult - 121 Scania Shadower

iFrancisco + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

My Characters: CBFrancisco - 200 KradiaGMS Shadower

TheMagistic + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] d1m3n510nx : I'll hold you to it. Sub-30 second Lyka run within the next two weeks, or you admit DBs are overpowered. Though I'm still not sure I believe you -- if it's just a matter of godly potential gear, you'd think we'd see more insanely fast boss solo's from other classes. I've already seen people advertising 127/17 Pescas with +15% attack in Broa. I mean you'd have to be hitting 372k PER SECOND to match his DPS. Even if we assume 1 BS + 1 SB per second, you're only hitting 1480%. Your max damage range in the stat window would have to be well over 25k... and I doubt % equips are going to give you THAT much of a boost. Judging from the video, DBs can do 1 chain + 1 fb about every 3 seconds. Given their mirror image (+60% damage) and thorns buff (expected value of +87.5% damage), and assuming half the attacks on chain and fb do half damage due to being blade attacks, a DB could pull off the same feat with a mere 15k or so max in the stat window -- averaging nearly double our DPS. [/quote] Actually, a DB would need a 25.5k average range to pull this off 50% of the time assuming perfect conditions. Take Chains of Hell. 250% with 12 hits makes it 375%*6. Mirror Image is nerfed to add 60% per hit. So 60% with 12 hits is 90%*6 Thorns is 35% of 250% So 24 hits of 87.5% So 12 hits of 131.5% (Does Critical work on Mirror Image like that?) 4368%/hit on average In 25 seconds, its approx 36400% 9.3m/36400% is 25.5k Dagger Range Also: [quote] d1m3n510nx : BoT has almost no range at all. We have to literally be on top of the mobs spamming pots to hit them. And almost all Dual Blade skills are overpowered like this: Maximum damage outputs: Fatal Blow: 1440% Slash Storm: 1920% Tornado Spin: 2000% Bloody Storm: 4480% (! In 3rd job+, and they get mirror image in this job as well. This outdamages our maxed Boomerang Step in 4th job even before any buffs are applied) Flying Assaulter: 6400% (This + mirror image + thorns averages almost FIVE TIMES our Boomerang Step damage) etc. All of these can be buffed further by Mirror Image (+60%) and Thorns (+35% crit rate, +250% crit damage, that's almost 3 Sharp Eyes buffs stacked!), and Venom's DoT. Also, the video I linked to earlier with a DB doing 9.3mil damage in under 25 seconds while being invincible the majority of that time. Compare that to ANY other classes Lyka solo videos and then tell me DB's aren't overpowered. IIRC there was a video of an Aran that took out Lyka that I saw on Basil in about 10 seconds or less. @um isnt bot 250% and tat would make it 1500%: Good eye. The site I was using must have been outdated -- I checked on my Shadower and it is indeed 250%. But we're still comparing 2nd job skills to 3rd jobs (meaning it's actually probable for a level 4x DB to hit the same as a CB, which is simply ridiculous), and as noted above the DB's only continue to get more powerful skills in 3rd job. [/quote] This is just for a comparison in 4th job. All you recall, in this thread its stated that Dual Bl

My Characters: Oefe - 82 Broa Chief Bandit

orangeking11 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Things On A Lot of Bandits' Wishlists: #2 - There be less Sins. There's a plus side. xD Edit: And as iFrancisco mentioned, the numbers we know now places Corsairs on their ship on the #1 spot for single target output and what we know on Criticals don't look like they're able to put DBs over 'em. xD

My Characters: Orange111 - 143 Broa Night Lord

d1m3n510nx + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] TheMagistic : Actually, a DB would need a 25.5k average range to pull this off 50% of the time assuming perfect conditions. Take Chains of Hell. 250% with 12 hits makes it 375%*6. Mirror Image is nerfed to add 60% per hit. So 60% with 12 hits is 90%*6 Thorns is 35% of 250% So 24 hits of 87.5% So 12 hits of 131.5% (Does Critical work on Mirror Image like that?) 4368%/hit on average In 25 seconds, its approx 36400% 9.3m/36400% is 25.5k Dagger Range [/quote] Assumed 1 Chains + 1 FB every 3 seconds: Chains: 250% x 6 + 125% x 6 (6 full hits, 6 assumed half hits) = 2250% FB: 180% x 4 + 90% x 4 (4 full hits, 4 assumed half hits) = 1080% Total: 3330% Thorns buff gives +35% crit chance, +250% crit damage. This is an expected value of 0.35*250% = 87.5% increased damage. 3330% * 1.875 = 6243.75% Mirror Image hits 60% of that: 6243.75% * 1.6 = 9990% %/second = 9990%/3 seconds = 3330% per second To obtain 372k per second, you would need an average of 372k / 33.3 damage in the stat window. About 11,171 average. You wouldn't need 25.5k max to achieve an 11,171 average unless DBs have insanely bad mastery. And: @CBFrancisco "Not sure if you realize it or not, but that Pescas is a far cry from a 163 attack with +30% on bosses (because that is what I have). And yes, I have very close to a 25k range with maximum buffs; 1 more week and it should be over 30k for sure. " I stand corrected. Perhaps these % equips are more overpowered than I thought.

My Characters: lDimMaK - 126 Broa Shadower

iFrancisco 07/25/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] d1m3n510nx : @CBFrancisco I stand corrected. Perhaps these % equips are more overpowered than I thought. [/quote] Yea, I have to agree with that. The positive about the way % gear is is that it is expensive, and it realllllly benefits the higher levels more. You can take a seemingly average class in DPS (Shads, as an example) but give it great potential gear as well as a high level and then even overpowering NL or BMs (among others) at bosses is a very real possibility. The gear helps neutralize some class imbalances.

My Characters: CBFrancisco - 200 KradiaGMS Shadower

MrKratos 07/25/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Great, now I'm stuck. I made a Chief Bandit during that 2x event Nexon gave us. 1 ~ 75 in 2 days. [Last week in fact] Anyways, should I continue my Shadower or continue my DB whose like level 40. :X After rebalance, which is stronger?

My Characters: Kratos99 - 124 Scania Hero

therebegold 07/25/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

apprntly DBs still are but the margin isnt as wide as it was before. One could argue that DBs are more offense whilst shads go more defense, you cant have a class that has it best in both fields

NinjaKc 07/25/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] Lysinc : Maplestory is slowly becoming a pay to win game just like any other F2P companies out there. Pay for skill books to become even more power than classes that doesn't require skill books. I can't believe I defended this game as not a pay to win game. I retract my stance. [/quote] I agree with him. Unless your an adventurer/CK you'll probably be paying for skills, as the way things look now. They just add more stronger classes and better looking skills so people will use NX to buy skill books and such. Nexon thinks pretty dam smart. THey are just a money whording company.

My Characters: ViperNinjaKc - 74 Galicia Thunder Breaker

orangeking11 07/25/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] NinjaKc : THey are just a money whording company. [/quote] That's a good thing. Better than a "we give so much for free, and well, now we're broke. We enjoyed the fun, but bye bye now." xD

My Characters: Orange111 - 143 Broa Night Lord

TheMagistic 07/26/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] d1m3n510nx : Assumed 1 Chains + 1 FB every 3 seconds: Chains: 250% x 6 + 125% x 6 (6 full hits, 6 assumed half hits) = 2250% FB: 180% x 4 + 90% x 4 (4 full hits, 4 assumed half hits) = 1080% Total: 3330% Thorns buff gives +35% crit chance, +250% crit damage. This is an expected value of 0.35*250% = 87.5% increased damage. 3330% * 1.875 = 6243.75% Mirror Image hits 60% of that: 6243.75% * 1.6 = 9990% %/second = 9990%/3 seconds = 3330% per second To obtain 372k per second, you would need an average of 372k / 33.3 damage in the stat window. About 11,171 average. You wouldn't need 25.5k max to achieve an 11,171 average unless DBs have insanely bad mastery. And: @CBFrancisco "Not sure if you realize it or not, but that Pescas is a far cry from a 163 attack with +30% on bosses (because that is what I have). And yes, I have very close to a 25k range with maximum buffs; 1 more week and it should be over 30k for sure. " I stand corrected. Perhaps these % equips are more overpowered than I thought. [/quote] Have you ever wondered why NLs get more of a buff from criticals than Heros or Shadowers do? Critical is additive not based on multiplication. If it was, everyone would get the pretty much same boost and NL would be down very low on the weapon attack DPS charts. However, because its additive, Nightlords get an extra 240% (with SE and passive critical) at a 65% chance, making it 390% per Triple Throw Star if it crits. Mirror Image also adds only 60% damage as in +60% per hit (similar to critical), not x1.6 to balance the class.

My Characters: Oefe - 82 Broa Chief Bandit

pavchka 07/26/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] NinjaKc : I agree with him. Unless your an adventurer/CK you'll probably be paying for skills, as the way things look now. They just add more stronger classes and better looking skills so people will use NX to buy skill books and such. Nexon thinks pretty dam smart. THey are just a money whording company. [/quote] DB skills are available as Monster Drops, but they have only a 50% chance of working and to be honest I don't know if ALL skills are available in game (and outside CS). :S I saw just a few of them in the FM and they were all Third Job and up.

My Characters: Touzokuou - 124 Broa Shadower

d1m3n510nx + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] TheMagistic : Have you ever wondered why NLs get more of a buff from criticals than Heros or Shadowers do? Critical is additive not based on multiplication. If it was, everyone would get the pretty much same boost and NL would be down very low on the weapon attack DPS charts. However, because its additive, Nightlords get an extra 240% (with SE and passive critical) at a 65% chance, making it 390% per Triple Throw Star if it crits. Mirror Image also adds only 60% damage as in +60% per hit (similar to critical), not x1.6 to balance the class. [/quote] I know for a fact Mirror Image hits exactly 60% of what you hit. It *is* x1.6 (1 = your current damage, .6 = your mirror image damage, 1+ .6 = 1.6). Ex: If you hit 100,000, your mirror image hits 60,000. That's a total of 160,000. 100,000x1.6 = 160,000 And as for the criticals -- if you're hitting an extra 250% damage 35% of the time, that is an expected value of 87.5% increased damage AT MINIMUM over whatever you're already hitting. I didn't add/multiply this to any base crit rates /damage, because I don't have that information -- all I know is that either way it would for sure be *higher* than I calculated. And the way you factor that in *is* x1.875 for the same reasons (1 = your current damage, .875 = the expected increase from thorns). If you hit all criticals, your mirror image does as well, hitting exactly 60% of your total damage.

My Characters: lDimMaK - 126 Broa Shadower

shanlan + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] d1m3n510nx : I know for a fact Mirror Image hits exactly 60% of what you hit. It *is* x1.6 (1 = your current damage, .6 = your mirror image damage, 1+ .6 = 1.6). Ex: If you hit 100,000, your mirror image hits 60,000. That's a total of 160,000. 100,000x1.6 = 160,000 [/quote] That's how Shadow Partner works.. Mirror Image works a bit differently. Say you have 25k range and hit 100k damage with Flying Assaulter (25k x 400% = 100k) With Mirror Image doing 60% damage, your Mirror hit would be 25k x 60% = 15k damage, so your total damage would be 100k + 15k = 115k instead of 160k Better explanation here: link