suggestions please? (:

basilmarket.com forums : Assassin to Night Lord | 13 posts archived

thread starter daKATxx Jul 22 2010 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

So. Im used to playing mages. And im usually on my bishop nowadays; but after hearing about the revamp coming up and the cooldown for my Genesis; I've decided to actually make a NL. Finally, a damage dealing class. Basically. I have no idea whatsoever on whats good and whats not. My friends and my own bishop are going to help my sin level. However I need suggestions for the equips im going to be using on her. Ive decided to go with a low dex build and shes currently at level 34 with a capped 47 base dex. Im planning on getting her a scar helm, and a MoN in the near future once she gets up to the level req. I am funding her with nx and mesos from my bishop but I do need suggestions on which equips I should get for her in order to make her as strong as possible.

My Characters: Duveteux - 165 Khaini Bishop

7h13fb0y 07/22/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

I would get a chaos Zhelm/HTP if I were you, but w/e, your choice. Really the equips you chose depend on the nicest % equips you can find for the cheapest. In the past the list would include BWGs, bathrobes, facestoppers, etc, but now all that stuff is junk for end game, as you cannot get a really nice Luk % out of them.

My Characters: DanceofDraco - 47 Windia Page

daKATxx 07/22/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Oh well. I already have a karmaed htp waiting; and my friends are going to zak leech me when i get to 50 so i might get a helm there. I really truly dont get this concept of % equips. But whatever, basically. My sinnie has unlimited funds for it. So i want to make her kickass Oh and i forgot to mention. Hopefully she can boss (: (Does this mean i have to hp wash)

My Characters: Duveteux - 165 Khaini Bishop

7h13fb0y 07/22/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Yeah, HP washing would be a good idea. Also, I said Chaos HTP and Chaos Zhelm. They are two new equips released with the DB; just so you don't get a regular HTP/Zhelm and start chaos scrolling it, lol. Just do a quick Google on % equips, I am probably not the best source for that. The basic idea is that the higher level the equip, the more likely it is to gain a higher % from being identified. Oh, btw, for maximum results, Makering everything is my recomendation, that way you can use Advanced Crystals on it, for an additional 9 stats/item (with Maker level 3).

My Characters: DanceofDraco - 47 Windia Page

sbdsxdx 07/22/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

If you really have unlimited funds, u can be dexless craven/lampion user. But if u dun want to start a new char, u can cap at 50. Try to get as many dex equips as possible! GL!

My Characters: 0rangeCoke - 63 KradiaGMS Assassin

daKATxx 07/22/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Im def going to be looking into cravens. Iono. I like the way they look better. Thanks (:

My Characters: Duveteux - 165 Khaini Bishop

AutumnAzn 07/22/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

First of all, if you're interested in making a damage dealing class, don't make an NL. Second of all, a MoN is still better than the Chaos HTP, but you should invest in a Chaos zHelm if possible. If you want to make a NL, focus on getting equips for attack whenever possible. EX: Attack only PAC > Dex PAC > Dex YAC As for equips, focus on them in this order: Claw, WG, Stars, Cape, Hat, Bottom, Top, Earring, then the other things if you can get them.

My Characters: AutumnAzn - 152 Scania Night Lord

7h13fb0y + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] AutumnAzn : First of all, if you're interested in making a damage dealing class, don't make an NL. [/quote] Why not, 2nd highest realizable DPM in the game (after DBs), 3rd highest theoretical DPM (after DBs and 'Sairs). [quote] AutumnAzn : Second of all, a MoN is still better than the Chaos HTP, but you should invest in a Chaos zHelm if possible. [/quote] Meh, could go either way on this. At lv200, you're right, but look at here Bishop, it is most certainly not lv200, and they train much quicker. [quote] AutumnAzn : If you want to make a NL, focus on getting equips for attack whenever possible. EX: Attack only PAC > Dex PAC > Dex YAC [/quote] Remember the % equips. With the new formulas, it will be almost as good as multiplying your current damage by 100% + the multiplier. [quote] AutumnAzn : As for equips, focus on them in this order: Claw, WG, Stars, Cape, Hat, Bottom, Top, Earring, then the other things if you can get them [/quote] Stars > WG, not WG > Stars. Extended training time before reload and more attack (esp with Ilbis and CIlbis).

My Characters: DanceofDraco - 47 Windia Page

AutumnAzn 07/23/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

The order in realistic terms is Aran > DB > Corsair > NL. There is proof on the site south of Perry, and it really makes me wonder why you would suggest something that you thought was second best. NLs are 4th in terms of single target DPS. Probably doesn't sound so bad... except Arans are GREAT mobbers as well, and Corsairs have more HP than we do. In terms of speed DBs are our equal, our only difference is that DBs have better DPS. I see no valid reason for creating a NL. No, the MoN is better at any level, it doesn't go either way. 10 ATK and 5 LUK/DEX > 2 ATK and 25 LUK/DEX unless your ATK to LUK ratio is somehow under 1:5. Uhh... pardon? It's far better to get equips that boost attack by a certain % than dex / luk by a certain %, just because it's in % doesn't change anything. What kind of logic is that? Just because a WG is more important than a set of Stars doesn't mean you shouldn't buy stars. You wouldn't even be able to play. ....anyway. First of all, you shouldn't be getting Cils, second of all, if you have a reasonable amount of stars for a NL (16 - 24 sets?), it would cost somewhere around 1.5 - 2B to upgrade from Ilbis to Furies. Unless you're mad rich (in which case what order you go in really doesn't matter), 2B is better spent on the WG. You'll be able to get more than an additional 3 attack investing 2B into your glove. ......

My Characters: AutumnAzn - 152 Scania Night Lord

7h13fb0y 07/23/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] AutumnAzn : The order in realistic terms is Aran > DB > Corsair > NL. There is proof on the site south of Perry, and it really makes me wonder why you would suggest something that you thought was second best. NLs are 4th in terms of single target DPS. Probably doesn't sound so bad... except Arans are GREAT mobbers as well, and Corsairs have more HP than we do. In terms of speed DBs are our equal, our only difference is that DBs have better DPS. I see no valid reason for creating a NL. [/quote] I didn't suggest it, she said she wanted it, read her first post. They are very competetive single target attackers, only beaten in real single target damage by DBs, the playstyle of which she obviously didn't want as she didn't ask for it. None of the other classes you put up are relevent either, as none have similar playstyles to the NL, and all have inferior 1v1 damage. [quote] AutumnAzn : No, the MoN is better at any level, it doesn't go either way. 10 ATK and 5 LUK/DEX > 2 ATK and 25 LUK/DEX unless your ATK to LUK ratio is somehow under 1:5. [/quote] The CHTPcan be egged twice. 40 Luk, 40 Dex, 4 Atk I'd say it could go either way, wouldn't you? [quote] AutumnAzn : Uhh... pardon? It's far better to get equips that boost attack by a certain % than dex / luk by a certain %, just because it's in % doesn't change anything. [/quote] You can get upto 21% or 27% (forget which) out of each equip. You'd need a hell of a lot of attack on that equip, or a terrible total attack, for any attack equip to increase you damage by 2x%. [quote] AutumnAzn : What kind of logic is that? Just because a WG is more important than a set of Stars doesn't mean you shouldn't buy stars. You wouldn't even be able to play. [/quote] All I said was that fighting for longer was more important than a few points of attack on a WG, which is a very reasonable statement. Next time you might want to quote me, so you actually know what I said. [quote] AutumnAzn : ....anyway. First of all, you shouldn't be getting Cils, second of all, if you have a reasonable amount of stars for a NL (16 - 24 sets?), it would cost somewhere around 1.5 - 2B to upgrade from Ilbis to Furies. Unless you're mad rich (in which case what order you go in really doesn't matter), 2B is better spent on the WG. You'll be able to get more than an additional 3 attack investing 2B into your glove. [/quote] Oh, from Ilbis to Furies. In that case you are right, that is the only situation in which Gloves > Stars.

My Characters: DanceofDraco - 47 Windia Page

AutumnAzn 07/23/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

That is incorrect. The source south of Perry is for single target DPS, and it states all 3 of those classes are superior, as well as provides math to show it. I stated they were better in response to your question of "why not"? If you think otherwise, please provide a source or some kind of proof. The reason the NL was chosen was for being a damage dealing class and being able to boss, not because of the playstyle, and so I suggested options that were superior in that aspect. The comment was in no way aimed at you, and even you will admit that at least one of those classes are superior in terms of single target DPS, although all three of them are. Where did you get that it can be egged twice from? Again, source it please. And if said statement is true, there is NO way it goes both ways, the CHTP is far better in any situation should a person be able to afford it. Uhh... yeah that third part didn't make any sense. Why would you have less sets of stars just because you got the WG first? Please, read. You even quoted right off my post. It doesn't matter what kind of star you use, as long as you have the same amount, they will last the same amount of time. Was this not clear? Why would a person with her funding be using anything less? 24 sets of Ilbis only costs 300 - 400M, so should she get that it would be one of her cheaper upgrades. It's the only situation that matters, unless she states otherwise. But anyway, specific point doesn't need to be argued on, since we both agree on it.

My Characters: AutumnAzn - 152 Scania Night Lord

7h13fb0y + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] AutumnAzn : That is incorrect. The source south of Perry is for single target DPS, and it states all 3 of those classes are superior, as well as provides math to show it. I stated they were better in response to your question of "why not"? If you think otherwise, please provide a source or some kind of proof. The reason the NL was chosen was for being a damage dealing class and being able to boss, not because of the playstyle, and so I suggested options that were superior in that aspect. The comment was in no way aimed at you, and even you will admit that at least one of those classes are superior in terms of single target DPS, although all three of them are. [/quote] Theoretical DPS, watch them in action. Not going to argue this, as any numbers I put forward will "prove" the opposite, but you yourself are an NL, and I can't imagine you've gotten to your level without getting around a little bit. What do your experiences tell you, that you are less effective at dealing damage than a Corsair? I'd find that hard to believe. When the ship goes boom, the numbers go with it. RF ftw. Ditto for Arans. How often is it that they get stunned, and subsequently lose their combo? Even a good Aran trips up once in a while and loses his high numbers in a boss fight. [quote] AutumnAzn : Where did you get that it can be egged twice from? Again, source it please. And if said statement is true, there is NO way it goes both ways, the CHTP is far better in any situation should a person be able to afford it. [/quote] There is also cost to consider. I have not gotten out to the FM to check out prices on the CHTP, do you know how much they are selling for, or if they are even selling yet?

My Characters: DanceofDraco - 47 Windia Page

AutumnAzn 07/23/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu2UrZptT0Y She uses her combo once every 500 hits. It doesn't make much of a difference DPM-wise. The combo adds an additional 10 W.ATT at 100 combo counters, nothing more. While 10 W.ATT is a lot for NLs, Arans often have 200ish W.ATT already, an additional 10 does not affect them as much as it affects us. Add an Onyx Apple and the difference is even harder to notice. Arans do NOT rely on their combos for damage output. You're going to just have to trust me on this since I've already backed it up with numbers, and you agree that you won't; When I talk to my Corsair friend about how fast he can kill things, it's faster than the rate I can do it at. An example of this would be Pap or Anego. Furthermore, if realistically, NLs outdo Corsairs AND we have Alchemist, making us far cheaper and easier to bring along to boss runs, Corsairs would not be able to boss outside of "fun runs" or those with solid guild connections. Well... first of all, I couldn't find the source regarding that it could be egged twice, so if you could provide it, it would be nice. Not much more for me to talk about here until I'm sure it's better, I don't want to be people to get the wrong idea about the CHTP.

My Characters: AutumnAzn - 152 Scania Night Lord