How much damage would I lose out on?

basilmarket.com forums : Mage | 15 posts archived

thread starter AltairHawk Mar 09 2010 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Hi, I know this question has been brought up 874632874 times, but I don't really read the Wizard forums, and this question is more specific. So, basically I felt like starting up a Mage as a fun class, and also to possibly get a Chaos Scroll from this event. I have made Mages before, bu always quit them before they got very far. I have been thinking about whether to be a Low-LUK Mage or go LUKless, which is obviously more efficient. I will get to 3rd job, and may even get to 4th if leveling is quick and easy. I find it fun to be able to equip certain armour and weapons, and I really like the level 58 Magician Robe Set. However, it would NOT be fun if this class leveled really slowly. I am picking a Mage mostly because of its leveling ability. So my questions are: -How much less powerful is a Low-LUK Mage than a LUKless Mage? -Will the lack of power affect my training speed severly? -Can I make up for the INT lost through Maker? Thanks! =D

My Characters: AltairHawk - 87 Bera Ranger

jonatan + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

-How much less powerful is a Low-LUK Mage than a LUKless Mage? Your damage will be lower, how much lower depends on your funds. -Will the lack of power affect my training speed severly? Yes it will. -Can I make up for the INT lost through Maker? No, you can make the gap smaller but never make up for it.

My Characters: SavesLifes - 64 Mardia Cleric

iLickLollipops 03/09/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] jonatan : -Will the lack of power affect my training speed severly? Yes it will. [/quote] it wont affect the training speed that much

My Characters: Wyrms - 122 Broa Dark Knight

jonatan 03/09/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] iLickLollipops : it wont affect the training speed that much [/quote] Ops, missed the last word "severly", idk really it may lower the training speed by like 5%/h at 1x exp, not that much but if you are on 4x exp thats 20% lost every hour.

My Characters: SavesLifes - 64 Mardia Cleric

gtbROX 03/09/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] jonatan : -How much less powerful is a Low-LUK Mage than a LUKless Mage? Your damage will be lower, how much lower depends on your funds. -Will the lack of power affect my training speed severly? Yes it will. -Can I make up for the INT lost through Maker? No, you can make the gap smaller but never make up for it. [/quote] This post disregards many factors, one of which is mentioned by the poster above me. If you're going 1-120 on a cleric/priest it really makes very little difference training, on mages it would only make a bigger difference in training if you have significant funding. Also, unless you can go over 5 bill in funding, low luk will beat lukless for clerics. Lukless dds users need much much more funding as they would need to have nicely scrolled rare equips, which are usually expensive clean. Ws+50% scrolliing makes it even worse, expect to even go over 10 bill if you really want to be a lukless dds user, and even if you did there really is no point in being godly on a bishop anyways. For AMs, lukless always beats low luk no matter what funding.

My Characters: gtbhastacos - 120 Broa Paladin

Beggy + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Never make up for it? lolololololrelativefunding. A mostly unfunded LUKless mage with a clean Ewand 3 vs a funded LUK mage with a fully scrolled equip set and a scrolled Estaff 7. There you go, INT made up. Don't say it's an unfair comparison, because that's blindingly obvious. But this case is feasible ingame therefore must be considered. Your use of the word "never" is invalid. It'll make more of a difference if you're an I/L seeing as F/Ps train with poison whenever they max poison breath but still nothing to cry uncontrollably over (you'll be on average x-hitting things for a few extra levels until you on average (x-1)-hit them if you add LUK and are relatively unfunded). But really. REALLY. If you like the level 58 overall then go for it. It's just a game, your goals are whatever you want them to be. Once you're in the realms of 4th job, whether you're LUK or LUKless, all that really matters damage-wise is your Matk value (as the Matk formula is parabolic, 1 Matk has more effect the more total Matk you already have). While a LUKless will generally have an easier time getting a higher Matk value, a (low) LUK can still outstrip them with sufficient funding. I can match a fair amount of the LUKless mages in the Magic Ranges thread with regards to Matk value and I have 84 base LUK. It's doable if you care about it that much.

My Characters: Seikyouiku - 134 Scania Corsair

AltairHawk + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Well, I was planning on making an I/L Mage if: 1. The level 70 elemental wand for Ice or Thunder is affordable (I would be LUKless then). 2. They can train at a good speed (at least 1/3 of a level per hour on 1x) in 2nd job and most of 3rd job WITHOUT being Lukless (I would go Low-LUK) If the level 70 elemental wands are ridiculously expensive, I will NOT be Lukless, no matter what. I hate the level 64 Maple Staff; it just looks like crap. If I can't get a wand, I will look into low-LUK. If I can still get around 1/3 of a level per hour on 1x in 3rd job, I will choose this. If not.......I could potentially make a F/P Mage. It would certainly be Low-LUK and have crappy equips, since I would Poison train. With that, training speed isn't a question. However, I don't really like it aesthetically speaking. Mist is passable, their Ultimate is only a little less cool than Blizzard, and many of their skills are fine. However, I MUCH prefer Chain Lightning to Paralyze; the latter is just so bland and static. Also, I think Explosion looks like a piece of crap. SO I HAVE 3 NEW QUESTIONS! -How much are the level 70 Thunder and Ice wands? They don't have to be good, just average or a little under-average. -Can Normal LUK I/L Mages get at least 1/3 of a level per hour in 3rd job? How much would both, a LUKless and a Low-LUK expect to get per hour? -How much do F/P Mages use Explosion? Is there a way to get around using it and still be efficient? Thanks for all the help so far; now answer these! =D EDIT @ Above: My concern isn't damage, exactly. This character is just for fun. And for me, quick leveling is a lot more fun than slow, painful grinding. Of course, it isn't the only factor, or even the most important one, but for a side character it is very significant. Side characters are supposed to take away the feeling of endless grinds anyway. In this post, I have explained my options, and raised some more questions. If F/Ps looked as cool, I would go make one, but again, for a side character aesthetics are also really important. I just don't want to make a LUK I/L Mage, and then get lower %/hour than my Ranger in 3rd job. That would be lame as hell.

My Characters: AltairHawk - 87 Bera Ranger

Fireless 03/09/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

luk doesn't affect the dmg of the mage. It's like its accuracy

My Characters: Firelesss - 81 Bera Blaze Wizard

Beggy + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

1) Seen Ewand 3s as low as 80m in Scania scrolled. Ewand 4s are even less, like 50m fully scrolled. Scrolling quality matters little when it comes to Ewands/staves. The real damage boost is from the multipliers. 2) Yes. Any I/L regardless of AP distribution can make 33.33%/hr for most of 3rd job due to the release of Galloperas in Malaysia. Pot costs are fairly low as Ice Strike freezes. 3) Not certain, apparently it's used only when there's a mob of poisoned enemies within range. Most of the time earlier on it's quicker to magic claw that last 1HP off though, seeing as it hits twice (more chance of actually hitting, seeing as what you're training on is so much higer in level compared to you until later on in 3rd) Edit: Also seconding below's comment about CL. That thing is bananas.

My Characters: Seikyouiku - 134 Scania Corsair

gtbROX 03/09/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] AltairHawk : SO I HAVE 3 NEW QUESTIONS! -How much are the level 70 Thunder and Ice wands? They don't have to be good, just average or a little under-average. -Can Normal LUK I/L Mages get at least 1/3 of a level per hour in 3rd job? How much would both, a LUKless and a Low-LUK expect to get per hour? -How much do F/P Mages use Explosion? Is there a way to get around using it and still be efficient? [/quote] 1-They're actually getting to be pretty darn cheap. I saw a basil auctiion for an ele wand 3 for only 70 mill recently, and an ele wand 4 for 30 mill. 2-Level/% per hr is completely unpredictable and could change according to many factors. I would answer you with this if I could but it's not like I can go to galloperas on my ice AM and test it out again. 3-Umm f/p mages usually just mist train from lv 80-120. Explosion is used just like how ice mages typically use ice strike except more precautions are taken because it doesn't have that ability to freeze like ice strike does. I'd also like to add that CL is simply a beautiful attack and is fun to use anywhere.

My Characters: gtbhastacos - 120 Broa Paladin

AltairHawk + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] Beggy : 1) Seen Ewand 3s as low as 80m in Scania scrolled. Ewand 4s are even less, like 50m fully scrolled. Scrolling quality matters little when it comes to Ewands/staves. The real damage boost is from the multipliers. 2) Yes. Any I/L regardless of AP distribution can make 33.33%/hr for most of 3rd job due to the release of Galloperas in Malaysia. 3) Not certain, apparently it's used only when there's a mob of poisoned enemies within range. Most of the time earlier on it's quicker to magic claw that last 1HP off though, seeing as it hits twice (more chance of actually hitting, seeing as what you're training on is so much higer in level compared to you until later on in 3rd) [/quote] -50m eh? That would be quite a large investment for me, but certainly manageable, especially if I earn some money along the way. -Oh ok, that is reassuring. But how much would each type (LUK and LUKless) obtain on average at say, level 90? I need a straight-up comparison. -From what you said to questions 1 and 2, I doubt I'll be making one of these. But would it be plausible to skip Explosion entirely? It is just such a turn-off.... @Above: -Wow, 30m is quite nice. And how hard are they to find? I am not seeing any on Basil...=( -Is there some sort of Magician Leveling Rates thread here, like in the Archer section? Thanks for the quick, helpful responses. =)

My Characters: AltairHawk - 87 Bera Ranger

gtbROX 03/09/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] AltairHawk : -50m eh? That would be quite a large investment for me, but certainly manageable, especially if I earn some money along the way. -Oh ok, that is reassuring. But how much would each type (LUK and LUKless) obtain on average at say, level 90? I need a straight-up comparison. -From what you said to questions 1 and 2, I doubt I'll be making one of these. But would it be plausible to skip Explosion entirely? It is just such a turn-off.... @Above: -Wow, 30m is quite nice. And how hard are they to find? I am not seeing any on Basil...=( -Is there some sort of Magician Leveling Rates thread here, like in the Archer section? Thanks for the quick, helpful responses. =) [/quote] Umm set your basil wishlist to have ele wand 3/4 and you'll get daily emails. The prices are generally really low for broa anyways, If you were here I'd probably sell you my ele wand 3 since I no longer need it. As for levelling rate thread there is one for f/ps but I'm not sure about the i/ls.

My Characters: gtbhastacos - 120 Broa Paladin

Beggy + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Not like I have anything else to do. A straight up comparison, I can't do that. Someone else would have to provide figures as I was 4th job well before Galloperas were released. And there isn't much else for an F/P to put points on, unless you go max Partial Resistance or something. Not like you're obligated to use it if you max it. I maxed Thunder Spear in 3rd job; that's no longer on my keyboard due to Chain Lightning. Thing with Explosion is that unlike Thunder Spear (or Comp for that matter) there's no other fire attack that behaves like it available to F/Ps; even if it is slow it's still a tool in making your F/P more versatile, if only marginally. At least it'll be there if you ever need it/feel like using it for some reason.

My Characters: Seikyouiku - 134 Scania Corsair

gtbROX 03/09/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] Beggy : Not like I have anything else to do. A straight up comparison, I can't do that. Someone else would have to provide figures as I was 4th job well before Galloperas were released. And there isn't much else for an F/P to put points on, unless you go max Partial Resistance or something. Not like you're obligated to use it if you max it. I maxed Thunder Spear in 3rd job; that's no longer on my keyboard due to Chain Lightning. Thing with Explosion is that unlike Thunder Spear (or Comp for that matter) there's no other fire attack that behaves like it available to F/Ps; even if it is slow it's still a tool in making your F/P more versatile, if only marginally. At least it'll be there if you ever need it/feel like using it for some reason. [/quote] I would try, but thing is, I completely forget what galloperas training was like on my i/l. All I remember is that I felt it was godly compared to my priest training. It was also significantly more fun, but I 4x-ed alot with an hs mule so yeah...

My Characters: gtbhastacos - 120 Broa Paladin

AltairHawk 03/09/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Alright, thanks for all the help. =) I think I will become LUKless for now, ignore my looks, and eventually get the typical LUKless set that I think actually looks nice: a sauna robe and an Ele-wand. Hopefully it won't take too long. =)

My Characters: AltairHawk - 87 Bera Ranger