Abortions are already planned

basilmarket.com forums : Chat | 16 posts archived

thread starter xrichard504x May 02 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

I know alot of you basilers believe abortion is wrong. Some of you believe its right and some of you are neutral towards it. But doesnt god plan your life in advance like the exact time of your birth and death? The bible does say "You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16] So wouldnt god be at fault here because he is the one that has already planned for the abortion to take place, The mother and doctors are just puppets fulfilling gods plan, are they not?. And Arent there millions of christians fighting against abortion? If abortion was part of gods plans why are they fighting against it, his plan is for more than 1million children to die from abortion in the United States alone. Now you tell me do we even have a saying about if abortion is right or wrong.

xrichard504x 05/02/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

LimusocoBobo said: "A4noob and angramainyu both have similar arguments to mine. Free will means what it means, we make our own choices. And God does not choose them for us, He simply knows what we will choose." By God giving a command to not eat off the tree in the Garden of Eden, the choice to eat or not to eat is left up to man. Genesis 2: 16) And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Is this sort of free will?

CeruleanMuse May 02 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

You do realize you're calling into question predestination, and that in itself is too complex for 95% of Basilmarket to understand? =,=;; Edit: @above, yes..

xrichard504x 05/02/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

CeruleanMuse said: "You do realize you're calling into question predestination, and that in itself is too complex for 95% of Basilmarket to understand? =,=;; Edit: @above, yes.." Yes and thats why 95% of basil will not answer to this thread or will simply post things like "YOUR TESTING MY FAITH'" like one guy posted. If i wanted to test anyones faith i could throw alot more on the table than just this.

LimusocoBobo 05/02/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

xrichard504x said: "By God giving a command to not eat off the tree in the Garden of Eden, the choice to eat or not to eat is left up to man. Genesis 2: 16) And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Is this sort of free will?" Yeah. It's free will. Adam and Eve could choose to eat the fruit, or not. They chose to eat it. That's called free will.

Sam613 05/02/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Why do I pray if God has already decided how something will turn out? Because God decided knowing that I would pray.

liljp112 05/02/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

The reason it think people are fighitng abortion is because they think that is makind doing so and not god which doesn't amke sense when you think about because god wouldn't allow us to create something that he didn't think would try to reach his power

demimatsui 05/02/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

What better place to talk about abortions than basil market....

angramainyu 05/02/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

xrichard504x said: " By God giving a command to not eat off the tree in the Garden of Eden, the choice to eat or not to eat is left up to man. Genesis 2: 16) And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Is this sort of free will?" By that logic, America is actually more of a fascist democracy than a republic. We're not given free will because we'll be incarcerated for breaking a law. Is that what you're saying?

CloudS31 05/02/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

How bout this. Everyone signs up for this class: link After everyone's done then we can actually have a good discussion. Until then, no one can answer your question TC.

xNaglfarx May 02 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

I see life more as a chess game. We all have near infinite choices, but it will end in one specific way..Hence we are bound by the board and have free will in choices.

LimusocoBobo 05/02/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

CloudS31 said: "How bout this. Everyone signs up for this class: link After everyone's done then we can actually have a good discussion. Until then, no one can answer your question TC." I took Introduction to Logic and Introduction to Philosophy last summer, actually. These courses greatly strengthened my reasoning skills. And I took an English Composition class a few years back; this greatly improved my ability to express my thoughts as clearly and persuasively as I possibly can. I'm more than ready for any discussion on this topic.

imtwocats 05/02/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

We can debate this for the rest of our lives, we aren't going to get anywhere meow. Why would we even need abortion if people would be more protective in the first place?

astrokid May 03 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

If ya don't want a bastard, abort it! If God plans life in advance why does he create babies that fall terminally ill from birth? That are born with numerous defects? That are handicapped, disabled and retarded from having a fair chance at life? Why do so many miscarriages occur? Why does he let extreme drug addicts, sexually abusive fathers, and psychopaths have children?

xrichard504x + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

astrokid said: "If ya don't want a bastard, abort it! If God plans life in advance why does he create babies that fall terminally ill from birth? That are born with numerous defects? That are handicapped, disabled and retarded from having a fair chance at life? Why do so many miscarriages occur? Why does he let extreme drug addicts, sexually abusive fathers, and psychopaths have children?" this is a question only god can answer.

CeruleanMuse + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

xrichard504x said: " Yes and thats why 95% of basil will not answer to this thread or will simply post things like "YOUR TESTING MY FAITH'" like one guy posted. If i wanted to test anyones faith i could throw alot more on the table than just this." Very well. *ignores other posters for now* Predestination is a very very complex philosophy that barely anyone knows anything about, and even those who do, don't know any more than it being 'someone, somewhere (presumably God, or some other infinite omnipotent force) has planned everything that will happen to us, regardless of what we do', which is, to an extent the surface of what it is, similar to how Christianity is 'believing in God' and abortion is 'getting rid of an unwanted kid.' Since Christianity is more than just 'believing in God' (re James 2:19 ) and abortion is more than 'getting rid of an unwanted kid' (re the abortion debate and reasons for abortion ), so too is predestination so much more. Given your scenario and the consequent assumption that you refer to it only regarding Christianity, I'll only go into, very briefly, predestination in Christianity. Disclaimer: This is but my point of view as per my beliefs and knowledge. Predestination takes many forms, even within Christianity itself, and insofar as I am concerned, God 'creates' every life with the full knowledge of the child's actions and the consequences and in that way, predetermines his/her destiny. He also knows exactly what the child's parent/s will decide and how that will affect the child, just as He knew how the parents' actions led to the consequence of that child being there. Because He loves us, He gives us free will. Because He gave us free will, He has to allow the presence of the choice. If you were given the choice between A and A, you could only, and would only, pick A. Therefore, you're not given the choice at all. If you were given A and B, then, and only then, are you really given a choice, and then and only then, would you be exercising your free will in choosing one over the other. Yes, God knows what the child's mother will choose, and yes, it does hurt Him to see yet another of His Children aborted, but the parent/s must be given this choice, if she/they weren't, then there wouldn't be that chance to exercise their free will. If you think about it, for every child that is born, or unborn, the parent/s have the choice: to abort, to give up for adoption, or to keep and raise. Yes, circumstances are different and not every child has the same temperament, mental health, physical health, whatever, but with each there is a reason. Have you watched Evan Almighty ? One of the things 'God' asks is that when someone asks for something, are they just magically given it, or are they given the opportunity to get it/learn it/have it etc(for whatever fits)? Even when they don't ask for something, every challenge is given for a reason, for a lesson. The choice is up to that person to take. God knows. And it hurts as much as