Steroids every 6 minutes vs Working out slow and steady?

basilmarket.com forums : Pirate | 15 posts archived

thread starter astrokid Apr 29 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

So max transform + shockwave, I think is basically what being a marauder is all about. Its our most powerful form and considering shockwave can hit 15k damage in the 80's should it be considered over blast? The prefered build is 21 shockwave and 30 blast, but at 21 blast hits 4, kinda convenient? I've been watching marauder videos, mainly iPunchEm and blast, well it hits max charge corkscrew damage on 4 monsters, but its not spammable and requires energy charge. To maximize potential, energy charge needs to be at max, which takes 40 SP's. Max Charge and Blast total require 70 SP's which means you won't reach maximum potential till the 90's. Whereas Transform + shockwave is only 50 SP's so you can reach full power around lvl 85. Max shockwave is our strongest form possible, it'll amaze people in MPQ and open up training spots where it'll otherwise take forever to kill monsters.. Well considering the 6minute delay maybe not... but at least it'll allow us to go into hyper mode in our regular training spots thus boosting our exp gain momentarily. 2 minutes is twice as long as Max energy charge lasts for, and in those two minutes the exp gain is probably doubled or more than that of if two minutes of charge were possible, considering the speed and power boost. Plus it's fun. You don't have to grind to gain the boost, it's readily there to access, and the 6 minutes penalty is workable. Also, lets not forget that transform gains the benefits of charge as well. Which is more fun? Momentary boost of power to *extreme* levels for a timed penalty, or grinding for a slightly more frequent but shorter lasting and smaller boost of power?

gabriel 04/29/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Lol, the title of the thread threw me off so badly.

groundonrage 04/29/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

gabriel said: "Lol, the title of the thread threw me off so badly." same

Takeback3r Apr 29 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

but blast is not spammable

AppleBanana 04/29/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

I've heard people prefer blast because shockwave is too slow. Idk, I'm not a Marauder.

astrokid 04/29/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Takeback3r said: "[quote]but blast is not spammable Going to be fixed. [quote]To maximize potential energy charge needs to be at max, which takes 40 SP's. Max Charge and Blast total require 70 SP's which means you won't reach maximum potential till the 90's. You make it sound like anything under level 40 charge is a joke at charging crap. Any marauder can charge just fine at level 21. You WILL regret shockwave. Take my word for it." Well, even though I plan to stay at 70 for a while, the patch will take a while to come out.. we don't even know how long that'll be.And shockwave right now is the only good mob skill available in stransform right now. Then dragon strike renders blast obsolete in the next 4 levels (lvl 124), but shockwave will remain the strongest for 8 levels into 4th job, and that's if you focus on dragon strike alone...

Joba 04/29/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Shockwave isn't usable anywhere except for Himes... If you try to use it anywhere else, you're lucky if you hit more than 3 monsters (even if there's 6 in it's "range"), because it glitches whenever it hits a small bump on the platform. There are lots of those at for example Typhons, Gobies and Blue Kents (And rest of Leafre) which are your best training places at 85+. Btw I still use Blast occasionally as a finisher, Shockwave is the 3rd job move that you won't ever use again after 125. -- What Takebacker said in his last sentence.

chut 04/29/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

lol title got me intrested haha

DragonsWrath Apr 29 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

from what i understand, the only reason to add extra points into charge is to increase the rate at which the bar fills up and extra stats , so a low level charge is perfectly reasonable as long as it charges fast enough for you. besides - i heard that shockwave takes roughly 1.8 seconds to complete, which means its ridiculously slow on top of the other problems it has (not being able to use it at blue kents is a big one). so if you're asking for our opinion, im whole-heartedly for going charge first - since it also lets you go into god mode every minute (i adore drain. no mp cost + faster than any fist skill + ranged + stealing HP + useful at level one? i mean, really?). if you just want to see a giant stream of numbers, then by all means go transform. just...be ready for slower training than you might think is all.

astrokid 04/29/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

DragonsWrath said: "from what i understand, the only reason to add extra points into charge is to increase the rate at which the bar fills up and extra stats , so a low level charge is perfectly reasonable as long as it charges fast enough for you. besides - i heard that shockwave takes roughly 1.8 seconds to complete, which means its ridiculously slow on top of the other problems it has (not being able to use it at blue kents is a big one). so if you're asking for our opinion, im whole-heartedly for going charge first - since it also lets you go into god mode every minute (i adore drain. no mp cost + faster than any fist skill + ranged + stealing HP + useful at level one? i mean, really?). if you just want to see a giant stream of numbers, then by all means go transform. just...be ready for slower training than you might think is all." Doesn't max charge give 20 W.ATK like hidden-street says it does?

Sn1per 04/29/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

As someone who started out with Energy Charge + Blast and switched to Transform + Shockwave, it is WAY better to go with the T+S build. Theres been a glitch (havnt tested with new patch yet) the would make you DC after Energy Charges orb expires. Although Transform is only usable for limited times, its still a massive amount of damage dealt while in it, and when the new updates from KMST come, we will be able to use other skills like corkscrew and SS while in Transform. But along with those updates, Blast will become a more spamable skill, but it is still hampered by the fact that it only deals damage on 4 mobs at a time, where as Shockwave already hits 6 mobs max, and deals more damage. So for now, the build that is safest it a Transform+Shockwave build, as training at Typhons with the DC glitch is VERY annoying. I end up dcing almost once every 5 to 10 mins, and sometimes while i am in transform, which really gets annoying,

Joba 04/29/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Sn1per said: "...and when the new updates from KMST come, we will be able to use other skills like corkscrew and SS while in Transform. But along with those updates, Blast will become a more spamable skill, but it is still hampered by the fact that it only deals damage on 4 mobs at a time, where as Shockwave already hits 6 mobs max, and deals more damage." Lol, Shockwave doesn't do more damage than Blast after it becomes spammable. After KMS updates come, (normal)Transform is only used for the speed bonus it gets. *Nothing else*.

xxxd3athxxx 04/29/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Sn1per said: "As someone who started out with Energy Charge + Blast and switched to Transform + Shockwave, it is WAY better to go with the T+S build. Theres been a glitch (havnt tested with new patch yet) the would make you DC after Energy Charges orb expires. Although Transform is only usable for limited times, its still a massive amount of damage dealt while in it, and when the new updates from KMST come, we will be able to use other skills like corkscrew and SS while in Transform. But along with those updates, Blast will become a more spamable skill, but it is still hampered by the fact that it only deals damage on 4 mobs at a time, where as Shockwave already hits 6 mobs max, and deals more damage. So for now, the build that is safest it a Transform+Shockwave build, as training at Typhons with the DC glitch is VERY annoying. I end up dcing almost once every 5 to 10 mins, and sometimes while i am in transform, which really gets annoying," You sure you know how to play a Marauder? I've been at himes for 2 days (8 hours total) and have yet to experience this "glitch" and you shouldn't even be using transform at Typhons. Sure, shockwave is useful during early 4th job, but Blast is much better in the long run. Blast does not get replaced by level 1 Dragon Strike, DS takes longer to cast and the damage is lower (I deal about 6-9k with DS whereas I do 11-15k with Charge).

Sn1per Apr 29 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Joba said: " Lol, Shockwave doesn't do more damage than Blast after it becomes spammable. After KMS updates come, (normal)Transform is only used for the speed bonus it gets. *Nothing else*." I say that even with the updates, it is still better to go with a transform first build. Reason being, its faster training. It took me nearly 15~19 levels before blast was able to out damage Flash Fists. Even without transform, i was getting 40% an hour without 2x at windraiders at 70, by 80 I was still getting a good 30% an hour, but that was with no real increase in attack power, as Energy charge didnt do much for me, and Blast was useless as it only hit 2~3 mobs. Transform at lvl 21 easily 2 hits windraiders, and thats on a mob of 6! I wouldnt be too surprised if i could have gotten 40%+ an hour into my 80s as well. EDIT: I should also note that i dont have max flash fists, but still. Now lets move on to typhons. I started training there at around 89, getting about 5% more an hour than i would at windraiders. Transform and shockwave are a good way to get rid of a maxed out mob fast (17+ typhons), which means luring before going into transform. Now with the DC glitch I get because of my added energy charge, my % an hour is hovering around 25%~30% an hour on 1x. Without the damned energy charge glitch dcing me, and with only the occasional fall (potting and walking on the bottom to under the entrance portal leads to the top of map), I could possibly get 35% an hour on 1x if i could stay up consistently. Someone said you couldnt use shockwave at typhons because it wouldnt hit all the mobs, theyre 100% wrong, any good mapler would know that you lure and kill at typhons, and the only kill spot is in the middle of the map, and almost saves you from the SKB all the time. Shockwave works in the spot when attacking <<<<< which helps you from being SKBed off the platform because the majority of the mob will attack you facing >>>> and put you against the wall thats there. Lets move on to Peak and Skeles maps. Both are basically leveled platforms. Shockwave works there, and thats where youll be heading up to 120, unless you still get awesome exp at typhons. And yes, himes are good.

DragonsWrath 04/29/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

astrokid said: " Doesn't max charge give 20 W.ATK like hidden-street says it does?" it does, but i cant justify the 36 extra points in it for 9 w.atk. as far as im concerned the reason to get charge is for drain and blast, but seeing as my pirate is only 73, i dont have much expirience with the latter (i still adore my lvl 1 drain though). my main gripe with transform is that its only for 2 minutes at a time, with 8 minutes in between when transform is maxed. so if you're going to look at it as 50 skill points versus 40 + 30 skill points for charge and blast, then yes its worth it, but i look at it more as 4 + 30 (my charge wont go above 4 for a while, seeing as i dont find the 9 extra atk and 20 second extra duration worth it so early) to be able to get my skill that, while weaker than shockwave (and isn't ranged), its less time consuming (blast is what, half a second? versus shockwaves 1.8 seconds or so - someone please correct me if im wrong) - and that means i can get more hits with other skills in the meantime (corkscrew + somersault kick for invincibility frames). this style of training isnt suited for typhons training where you'd likely have 15 typhons go down in a few seconds, but it does work out more for more general maps that shockwave cant work with. if they can fix the glitch where it gets stopped for any bump and just make it go straight through (regardless of terrain-height changes) then by all means it'd be the way to go (blue kents -> typhons -> himes). of course, if i need to say it - this is speculation on my part, since once again, im only lvl 73 and dont plan to play anytime soon. but i still prefer the charge and blast over shockwave. i guess the difference is whether you want a massive damage increase (say, 700% over 6 monsters by mid 80s), or whether you want more consistent training (during charge, blast replaces somersault kick, especially considering that blast hits 4 - meaning you hit as many monsters that you take with you with corkscrew)