What's the difference between DMG% and ATK% ?

basilmarket.com forums : General Maple Story | 16 posts archived

thread starter aran1234 Oct 16 2010 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

I potentialed a meteor katara and it said total dmg 3%. In FM, I see pot. equips with attack 6% and stuff like that. What's different between the two? :O

My Characters: DefiningAran - 77 Bera Aran in Misery

xOuranos 10/16/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] germy300 : Well, for example, the 1H Sword formula. One Handed Sword = [(STR * 4.0 + DEX) / 100] * Weapon Attack Say you have 100str, and 1dex. Say you have 100w.atk with a potential equip of +3%w.atk. 100x4+1/100=400.01. 400.01x103= 41201.03. Now, say you have 100str and 1dex. You have 100w.atk, but this time with a potential equip of +3%totaldamage. 100x4+1/100=400.01. 400.01x100=40001 damage, which is multiplied by 1.03, equals 41201.03 again. A similar formula should hold true with all other classes, except Assassins with throwing stars and Gunslingers with bullets. Also, I was wrong, seems like arrows don't affect the damage formula like stars and bullets. [/quote] Does anyone else see that he did the exact same thing twice? If you approach this logically. Nexon is NOT THAT STUPID to add 2 different things and make both of them the same. Total Damage =/= Attack. Total damage applies when you actually deal damage. So if you do 1000 damage and you have Total Damage 3%. You'll do 1000 x 3% as your final damage. which will end up being 30 damage more.

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diamond99007 10/16/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

I'm pretty sure that you just saw two numbers that were the same and automatically assumed that something must be wrong because you cannot comprehend how he got the result. Percent w.atk works by multiplying a percentage to the amount of weapon attack that you have, which germy shows factors into the overall damage output as the same as percent damage because the same percentage will be used after the damage has been calculated (for % damage). It DOES make logical sense because weapon attack is involved in the 'clean' damage formula and changes the numbers used; when you change the percentage calculation placement for % damage change and look at the two different equations, you simply moved where you multiply the percent. If you know basic algebra, then you'll recognize through the transitive property that the end result will still be the same. I HOPE this wall of text helps

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Spawrtah + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

All of you are wrong, the w.atk = total damage idea would be correct... If you were using a regular attack. edit: ninja'd

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DinhzOrxD 10/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

so..which one is better to have on a weapon? o_o

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tazcrosblade 10/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] DinhzOrxD : so..which one is better to have on a weapon? o_o [/quote] Ya, all these numbers are great BUT WHAT DO THEY MEEEEAAAANNNNN

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Spawrtah 10/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Well, it depends on many factors. It's situational and you'd have to calculate it for yourself. In my case though, total damage % is much, much better.

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aran1234 10/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

So damage % adds on to the total damage range and attack % adds on to the weapon's atk? ._.

My Characters: DefiningAran - 77 Bera Aran in Misery

Saiph 10/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Germy 300 is correct. %dmg and %atk are the same unless you use stars or bullets. Star and bullet attack is not included into the %atk, so %dmg would be better.

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osiji 10/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

They are not the same ><. Its as i said in my previous post on page 1, Total damage is the actual damage you do, so if 30000 with an attk, with 9% total damage, you will do 32700 damage, 2700 more damage. while %attk is not ur total wep attk or wep of ur weapon but of literally ATTACK look in ur stat window and wat is labeled attk? ur damage range. so say ur dmg range is 9000-10000 and u have 9% attk on ur weapon your max range will increase to 10900, 9% of 10000 is 900. which is better is depending on you. But for weapons (121+), 12% atk is better than 12% ur main stat cause that 12% for ur main stat will only help when ur max range when ur main stat increases but atkk will help whenever ur range increases, from main stat, to wep attk, to 2nd stat, to passive skills that raise ur attk, as well as attk pots. But a dream potential would be 30%boss dmg, 12%total dmg, 12% atk. That way you pwn bosses and as you get stronger the %attk will multiply it more, and the total dmg % just stack on to ur increasing attk as you see the damage you actually output.

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TikeyMasta + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] osiji : They are not the same ><. Its as i said in my previous post on page 1, Total damage is the actual damage you do, so if 30000 with an attk, with 9% total damage, you will do 32700 damage, 2700 more damage. while %attk is not ur total wep attk or wep of ur weapon but of literally ATTACK look in ur stat window and wat is labeled attk? ur damage range. so say ur dmg range is 9000-10000 and u have 9% attk on ur weapon your max range will increase to 10900, 9% of 10000 is 900. which is better is depending on you. But for weapons (121+), 12% atk is better than 12% ur main stat cause that 12% for ur main stat will only help when ur max range when ur main stat increases but atkk will help whenever ur range increases, from main stat, to wep attk, to 2nd stat, to passive skills that raise ur attk, as well as attk pots. But a dream potential would be 30%boss dmg, 12%total dmg, 12% atk. That way you pwn bosses and as you get stronger the %attk will multiply it more, and the total dmg % just stack on to ur increasing attk as you see the damage you actually output. [/quote] It depends on the situation. %Attack affects the input value (Attack Stat) while %Damage affects the output value (Attack Range). In most cases, the result will be the same simply because of the way the formula is set up. Also, Attack Stat =/= Attack Range. The key difference for %Attack and %Damage is the way they handle the numbers. %Attack will not take into account external attack buffs, like pots or stars, while %Damage does. Because of this, in your example, +12% damage will increase your damage more than +12% attack since everyone is most likely using buffs. Optimal potential would be +30% boss and +24% damage.

My Characters: CrystalUsr - 155 Broa F/P Arch Mage

osiji 10/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] TikeyMasta : It depends on the situation. %Attack affects the input value (Attack Stat) while %Damage affects the output value (Attack Range). In most cases, the result will be the same simply because of the way the formula is set up. Also, Attack Stat =/= Attack Range. [/quote] It does, me and my bro tested it with my equips i dont have the math and all but that's how it is maple is literal when you open up your stat window, what is labeled Attack? its that simple. And then total damage is just like damage to bosses except to every monster its as simple as that. Not much to think about it really. If it was weapon attack then it would say that. You get bonuses on weapons for wep attk, eg +12wep attk on a weapon. If %attk was your weapon attack it would say 12% wep attk not 12% attk, its that simple.

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gmharri 10/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

2 Post-Big Bang formulae for you to see the difference. 1:- Level 184 ~ Hero Str: 1473 Dex: 125 W.Att: 212 Weapon: 2-Handed Sword 12% W.Att (1.32*((1473*4)+125)*((212*1.12)/100)) = 18858.529536 12% Total (1.12*(1.32*((1473*4)+125)*(212/100))) = 18858.529536 2:- Level 192 ~ F/P Archmage Int: 1623 Luk: 84 M.Att: 365 Weapon: Elemental Wand 5 12% W.Att (1*((1623*4)+84)*(365/100)) = 24002.4 12% Total (1.12*(1*((1623*4)+84)*(365/100)) = 26882.688 They weren't meant to be different, they were made so that getting Total on a weapon means BOTH W.Att and M.Att, so instead of being a 50:50 chance of getting what you want on your weapon, its actually a 33:66 chance, so next time any of you lot complain about Nexon being greedy, remember that, they could of easily just removed total, and made even more money, because you have to cube more.

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TikeyMasta + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] osiji : It does, me and my bro tested it with my equips i dont have the math and all but that's how it is maple is literal when you open up your stat window, what is labeled Attack? its that simple. [/quote] No, you're oversimplifying everything on the basis of "because it says so," which is clearly wrong. An input value isn't an output value. You can't always trust labels, especially labels from Nexon. [quote] osiji : And then total damage is just like damage to bosses except to every monster its as simple as that. Not much to think about it really. [/quote] As was said before, because of how linear the weapon attack formulas are, both %Attack and %Damage end up being the same when you look at everything with no buffs. Once you start applying buffs, you'll see that %Damage ends up giving a higher bonus than %Attack because %Attack neglects buffs. [quote] osiji : If it was weapon attack then it would say that. You get bonuses on weapons for wep attk, eg +12wep attk on a weapon. If %attk was your weapon attack it would say 12% wep attk not 12% attk, its that simple. [/quote] What are you going about here? Neglecting buffs, we all know that both %Attack and +Weapon Attack affects your total attack, just like how %Magic and +Magic Attack affects your total magic. The only difference is one is a flat value while the other is multiplicative.

My Characters: CrystalUsr - 155 Broa F/P Arch Mage

jacob1248 10/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Remember the associative property. This is multiplication so the x1.03 could be at the end or the beginning, it doesn't matter.

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osiji 10/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote=TikeyMasta]No, you're oversimplifying everything on the basis of "because it says so," which is clearly wrong. An input value isn't an output value. You can't always trust labels, especially labels from Nexon. Test it out and when you show me that its wrong then its wrong, until then you cant say its wrong. Ive tried it using rough calculations and that is how it comes to be. Now your over thinking it when your saying that you cant trust the label. Think small b4 you think big.

My Characters: sviicj - 161 Khaini Bow Master