Should Final Toss be incorporated into training?

basilmarket.com forums : Aran | 15 posts archived

thread starter Incedio654 Aug 28 2010 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

If so, how? At the moment mine is lv1, since I'm following the guide on this site, and it says I won't be putting more SP into it until lv111 or something. I haven't been using it yet but I want to know of I should be, or if I should get a SP reset. Suggestions?

My Characters: oidiecni - 79 Bera Aran in Misery

kruimel0 08/28/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

I haven't used it much else then having a bit of fun. So just leave it at 1 and max it at last ^^

My Characters: Huskey - 104 KradiaEMS Aran in Misery

MorbidMagus + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Final Toss is one of the most, if not the most useless skill in the Aran skillbook. It's ALWAYS better just to use the regular attack combo, or Final blow against mobs once its a good level.

My Characters: SvadiIfari - 168 DemethosGMS Evan 1st Growth

dragonice1 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Well, my final blow is level 1. I use final toss as a defensive move. The way I train, I use smart knockback to constantly push back the monsters I'm training on, so that they can't use magic. However, as they are constantly getting pushed back, they are constantly getting pushed away. If I let them out of my range, they will use magic. So I sometimes use final toss to "stun" the monsters, and give myself a chance to finish off the monsters before they land. If a skele that I'm knocking back casts a buff, it has "escaped" the constant knockback state, and will attack after casting the buff. A quick final toss keeps it from attacking, and it usually dies before it lands and starts attacking again.

My Characters: xdragonice00 - 135 Windia Aran in Hope

xRaito 08/28/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] MorbidMagus : Final Toss is one of the most, if not the most useless skill in the Aran skillbook. It's ALWAYS better just to use the regular attack combo, or Final blow against mobs once its a good level. [/quote] No, rolling spin would be the most useless. Tossing then comboing in midair gives a nice boost, and should mainly be used only in 3rd job just for fun while training. -Tossing monsters into safe spots is fun-

My Characters: Distincx - 86 Scania Aran in Misery

MorbidMagus + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] xRaito : No, rolling spin would be the most useless. Tossing then comboing in midair gives a nice boost, and should mainly be used only in 3rd job just for fun while training. -Tossing monsters into safe spots is fun- [/quote] The extra damage is only applicable when you can actually hit the actual KB of the monster. Final Toss will only slow down you're killing, lul. Not like a 15x Aran would know this though. And do you have Max Rolling Spin? I find it hilarious that the majority of Arans that claim it sucks, doesn't even have it maxed and has no experience using the full skill, while the minority that does have it says otherwise. It can be used as a defensive move just as well, if n aot better, than final toss. Not that using final toss is needed, an Aran should always be a swing away from a mobs and keep them constantly kb'd, Body Pressure/Combo Step/Snowcharge, use to learn them efficiently people.

My Characters: SvadiIfari - 168 DemethosGMS Evan 1st Growth

dragonice1 08/28/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

My Characters: xdragonice00 - 135 Windia Aran in Hope

raymond10123 08/28/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] MorbidMagus : The extra damage is only applicable when you can actually hit the actual KB of the monster. Final Toss will only slow down you're killing, lul. Not like a 15x Aran would know this though. And do you have Max Rolling Spin? I find it hilarious that the majority of Arans that claim it sucks, doesn't even have it maxed and has no experience using the full skill, while the minority that does have it says otherwise. [/quote] So you have it maxed? Because if you did, you would know that it has a FAILURE rate, no matter how high of a level it is, also, the only "use" for it, is it stuns the monsters if it happens to work, which is pretty useless cause it pushed them away from you, meaning by the time you got to them they would already be unstunned. The only thing its "useful" for is knocking monsters away/into ksers.

My Characters: GlacialEdge - 121 Khaini Aran in Hope

MorbidMagus + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] dragonice1 : Please, tell us, what situation would you use rolling spin in? [/quote] Rolling Spin can be used in the same situation you mentioned in Final toss, except its actually reliable, moves you and the monsters forward, and stuns. Final Toss can also be used to knock a stray monster attacking you out of its magic range so you can go focus on a bigger mob and ignore it until its actually worth using your time over there, I'm sure TakeBacker could give you many more uses. @above, if you knew how to use it efficiently, along with the combination of your other skills, you would know otherwise. Failure rate or not. Final toss can slow down not only your DPS but Experience per hour. Have fun missing a monster with Final Tosses horrible lolrange and enjoy being hit. This argument is pointless however, BOTH moves are a horrible idea in actually training situations and its much better to make use of Combat Step Jumping and Attacking(and Some Final Blow when it gets higher level) with the combination of Snow Charge, Body Pressure, and Smart Knock Back. Attacking/Moving forward correctly can be much more better than the "defensive" traits of Toss and Spin if you actually know what the hell you're doing.

My Characters: SvadiIfari - 168 DemethosGMS Evan 1st Growth

xRaito + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] MorbidMagus : The extra damage is only applicable when you can actually hit the actual KB of the monster. Final Toss will only slow down you're killing, lul. Not like a 15x Aran would know this though. And do you have Max Rolling Spin? I find it hilarious that the majority of Arans that claim it sucks, doesn't even have it maxed and has no experience using the full skill, while the minority that does have it says otherwise. [/quote] Why the hell would you be training on something from your early and mid 3rd job that you can't even kb? At level 1, it gives 42% additional damage, not much, but you can continually use your combo while it's in midair. Final toss has little to no delay, and you can immediately continue attacking. I only suggested it to be used during 3rd job, and not 4th job, because it would slow down killing as you said. It might just be personal preference as well, but could you please tell me how pushing monsters away from you is useful to a mobbing class? @Above Both moves are personal preference I guess, /end argument pl0x.

My Characters: Distincx - 86 Scania Aran in Misery

dragonice1 08/28/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] MorbidMagus : Rolling Spin can be used in the same situation you mentioned in Final toss, except its actually reliable, moves you and the monsters forward, and stuns. Final Toss can also be used to knock a stray monster attacking you out of its magic range so you can go focus on a bigger mob and ignore it until its actually worth using your time over there, I'm sure TakeBacker could give you many more uses. [/quote] Rolling spin moves you forward? I think you are talking about final charge. I've never seen rolling spin stun a monster, EVER. It's more that the monster gets knocked back, and recovers a second later. When I said I used final toss on that monster, I meant when I'm attacking a full mob and they are getting knocked out of my range. If I use final toss, they are kept in the same place, they cannot move horizontally, and I'm skilled with final toss juggling to a point where I can deal with a mid-air mob. Can you show me a vid or something showing just how far rolling spin knocks away a monster behind you? Because when a monster is behind me, I usually either rush the mob in front of me forward to get out of it's range (not possible most of the time, since I train in oblivion), or I just use combat step to go back and rush it into the mob I have, and continue attacking from there.

My Characters: xdragonice00 - 135 Windia Aran in Hope

markedmask 08/28/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

I dont use it too often, but after big bang, I believe it adds 350% damage to attacked monsters, instead of just 100%. it'll be worth it then.

My Characters: nevryn - 140 Broa Aran in Hope

nhz213942 08/28/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

i use it to kill people

My Characters: Clappys - 100 Windia Aran in Misery

Mclena 08/28/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] MorbidMagus : Rolling Spin can be used in the same situation you mentioned in Final toss, except its actually reliable, moves you and the monsters forward, and stuns. Final Toss can also be used to knock a stray monster attacking you out of its magic range so you can go focus on a bigger mob and ignore it until its actually worth using your time over there, I'm sure TakeBacker could give you many more uses. @above, if you knew how to use it efficiently, along with the combination of your other skills, you would know otherwise. Failure rate or not. Final toss can slow down not only your DPS but Experience per hour. Have fun missing a monster with Final Tosses horrible lolrange and enjoy being hit. This argument is pointless however, BOTH moves are a horrible idea in actually training situations and its much better to make use of Combat Step Jumping and Attacking(and Some Final Blow when it gets higher level) with the combination of Snow Charge, Body Pressure, and Smart Knock Back. Attacking/Moving forward correctly can be much more better than the "defensive" traits of Toss and Spin if you actually know what the hell you're doing. [/quote] What skill are you talking about? You stand in one spot and don't move while using Rolling Spin, you push the monsters away from you. Toss is a hell of a lot better than Spin, why? Because it doesn't have lol range, it doesn't have a failure rate, and it stops the monsters from using their magic attack if you know how to use it correctly. Rolling Spin isn't worth any SP imo, I reseted the one point I put into it for that reason.

My Characters: MclenaofAran - 96 Windia Aran in Misery

MorbidMagus + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] xRaito : Why the hell would you be training on something from your early and mid 3rd job that you can't even kb? At level 1, it gives 42% additional damage, not much, but you can continually use your combo while it's in midair. Final toss has little to no delay, and you can immediately continue attacking. I only suggested it to be used during 3rd job, and not 4th job, because it would slow down killing as you said. It might just be personal preference as well, but could you please tell me how pushing monsters away from you is useful to a mobbing class? [/quote] Because in Early 3rd Job you would get more damage output raising Full Swing and Combo Critical. Besides, CWKPQ is inferior experience around 78, Where Kents, and Eventually Gallops, will start to be much more efficient and you WONT be able to hit the actual KB required with Toss, due to the damage dispersion, and when you do, you'll be able to kill so fast that using Toss will only slow you down. Especially since the range of spamming the attack button is better than Toss. Besides, Using lolrollingpsin means you can move after the monsters you push, and with moves like Combat Step, and the range of your overall attack, the pushing is hardly a problem.i Edit: Moving forward with Rolling Spin is possible, and many Aran videos(most after BB) show this. As I said, Rolling Spin does have its uses, so does Toss, it all depends on the preference of the player, but as I also said, Using Combat Step+ Attacking in 99% of all situations is better than both moves, and as such this argument is pointless. Most of the time the "defensive" traits of the moves are easily outdone by using Combat Step and Attacking and actually knowing what the hell you're doing. Rolling Spin being Useless or not is my opinion, as well with Final Toss, I never flat out told the OP to go Rolling Spin, nor do I suggest pumping SP into either move before maxing you're primary skills.

My Characters: SvadiIfari - 168 DemethosGMS Evan 1st Growth