30 atk Maple Claw Vs Explorers Dark Avarice!
thread starter 13LoL13 Jun 26 2010
+ PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT
| I was doing some damage testing on my level 41 assassin because I recently bought 30 atk maple claw for 13 mil (good deal?). I was doing better damage with the avarice than I was with the maple claw. My atk range was higher with the maple claw but i did better damage with the avarice. 2.9 was the max with the maple claw and 3.3 was with the slain. The slain gices me 7 crit. Is it more benificial? |
My Characters: OoO13OoO - 43 Broa Assassin
SinghNinja 06/26/10
+ PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT
| which ever one gives higher att range, does more dmg, dont rely on how much max dmg u see because u wont always see max dmg with ea claw |
My Characters: SinghShadow - 87 Bera Chief Bandit
Toxic 06/27/10
+ PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT
| I was thinking of scrolling this claw. Pretty good. Critical 7% up. Lulz. |
My Characters: IovelyKiss - 45 Broa Assassin
bballdragon5 06/28/10
+ PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT
| [quote] 13LoL13 : I was doing some damage testing on my level 41 assassin because I recently bought 30 atk maple claw for 13 mil (good deal?). I was doing better damage with the avarice than I was with the maple claw. My atk range was higher with the maple claw but i did better damage with the avarice. 2.9 was the max with the maple claw and 3.3 was with the slain. The slain gices me 7 crit. Is it more benificial? [/quote] Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this similar to the debate between crit ring and cruel ring for assassins/nw. I believe the cruel ring was better due to the +1 attack because of something to do with the crit calculations for assassins. The only way the crit ring would be better was if you had SE which you probably don't cause you aren't bossing at this lvl. If you take this and apply it to this scenario, the weapon with the most attack is better. Plus you get that little acc bonus with the maple claw. |
My Characters: crzyazazin - 67 Bera Assassin
AutumnAzn 06/28/10
+ PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT
| That's wrong, because in the case of the rings, both rings give an equal critical bonus without SE applied. This is not true for the Dark Avarice case. You are hitting more with the Dark Avarice, and more often. Given that damage is what you're looking for, the Dark Avarice is better. Oh yeah, you can't scroll it though. I tried. I bought 7 100% Claw Atk scrolls. They didn't work. I dropped them. I lost 490k. gg. |
My Characters: AutumnAzn - 152 Scania Night Lord
djp2313 06/28/10
+ PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT
| [quote] AutumnAzn : Oh yeah, you can't scroll it though. I tried. I bought 7 100% Claw Atk scrolls. They didn't work. I dropped them. I lost 490k. gg. [/quote] Haha thanks for saving me 490k =P |
My Characters: darknightr - 177 Bera Dark Knight
bballdragon5
+ PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT
| [quote] AutumnAzn : That's wrong, because in the case of the rings, both rings give an equal critical bonus without SE applied. This is not true for the Dark Avarice case. You are hitting more with the Dark Avarice, and more often. Given that damage is what you're looking for, the Dark Avarice is better. Oh yeah, you can't scroll it though. I tried. I bought 7 100% Claw Atk scrolls. They didn't work. I dropped them. I lost 490k. gg. [/quote] Refer to here: http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/1544759/1/Everything_you_need_to_know_about_Adventurer_Rings.html That tells you all about the rings and why cruel is better for sins/nw in general. But yea because of the Sin damage calculation the criticals are the same, DESPITE them being different percentages. I'm not saying that they aren't equal in the end, but the percentages are different. In the end, more attack is still beneficial. IF you apply that to your advice and mine, isn't it the same? Going with the better attack claw? I hate cassandras weapons b/c you can't scroll them. They do have nice effects but you can really lose a lot of attack with them. I feel like for Assassins, it may be better just to stick with getting your own claw unless your unfunded. |
My Characters: crzyazazin - 67 Bera Assassin
Lurkerkiller 06/29/10
+ PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT
| The explorers claw's attack is only 22 if I remember correctly, and the maple claw is 30, chances are, that the maple claw will give him the better overall damage. If the explorer's claw was higher % chance to crit, it would better. Though without a passive crit, I'm not 100% sure how much damage it gives, but I doubt it can be better than 8 w.att. |
My Characters: Walkling - 101 Windia Hermit
AutumnAzn 06/29/10
+ PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT
| [quote] bballdragon5 : Refer to here: http://www.basilmarket.com/forum/1544759/1/Everything_you_need_to_know_about_Adventurer_Rings.html That tells you all about the rings and why cruel is better for sins/nw in general. But yea because of the Sin damage calculation the criticals are the same, DESPITE them being different percentages. I'm not saying that they aren't equal in the end, but the percentages are different. In the end, more attack is still beneficial. IF you apply that to your advice and mine, isn't it the same? Going with the better attack claw? I hate cassandras weapons b/c you can't scroll them. They do have nice effects but you can really lose a lot of attack with them. I feel like for Assassins, it may be better just to stick with getting your own claw unless your unfunded. [/quote] I have no idea why you refered me to that thread. I don't need to read it, and even if I wanted to know the information... it's just basic math. In fact, I did the math myself again just to make sure the information on the thread was right, because I don't trust information on basil anyway. What you aren't thinking about is unlike the two rings, the Maple Claw does not give an additional chance to crit, nor does it add to critical damage. The TS already stated he was hitting 3.3k max with the slain and 2.9k max with the Maple Claw. Yes, I realize the attack of the Maple Claw is greater than the Avarice, however. He is asking which claw is better , not which claw has more attack. Since he hits higher (3.3k > 2.9k) with the avarice, and the avarice gives him a higher chance to crit, the avarice is better in terms of damage, which I'm going to assume he is looking for when he is refering to which claw is "better", seeing as this is a damage based game. I have no idea what you're spouting in your post, but it seems like you're trying to say that even though the rings give different critical bonuses: Cruel Ring gives +5%/chance +20%/damage Critical Ring gives 10%/chance +10%/damage They equal out to give the same bonus. This is true. This is not true in the case of the Maple Claw / Avarice. The Maple Claw gives 0%/chance 0%/damage. The Avarice (correct me if I'm wrong) gives 7%/chance 7%/damage. Now... in the case of the rings... the damage bonus given by the critical is equal. If you want proof, you can refer to that needlessly refered to thread. Time for some math! Just like how the max of 3.3k per star is higher than 2.9k per star. 7% is greater than 0%! That means it's bigger! Isn't it incredible? Now, because 7% =/= 0%, we can conclude that the Avarice gets a bigger bonus from critical! ...are you getting this so far? In this case, the critical bonus is clearly greater than the attack bonus. Proof being he hits 3.3k/2.9k max. Even if you don't understand how it works (It's okay, they'll teach you in... Algebra 1 I think), you should still be able to tell 3.3k is better than 2.9k. So even if you don't understand any of the math it's still okay. Just use |
My Characters: AutumnAzn - 152 Scania Night Lord
bballdragon5
+ PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT
| [quote] AutumnAzn : I have no idea why you refered me to that thread. I don't need to read it, and even if I wanted to know the information... it's just basic math. In fact, I did the math myself again just to make sure the information on the thread was right, because I don't trust information on basil anyway. What you aren't thinking about is unlike the two rings, the Maple Claw does not give an additional chance to crit, nor does it add to critical damage. The TS already stated he was hitting 3.3k max with the slain and 2.9k max with the Maple Claw. Yes, I realize the attack of the Maple Claw is greater than the Avarice, however. He is asking which claw is better , not which claw has more attack. Since he hits higher (3.3k > 2.9k) with the avarice, and the avarice gives him a higher chance to crit, the avarice is better in terms of damage, which I'm going to assume he is looking for when he is refering to which claw is "better", seeing as this is a damage based game. I have no idea what you're spouting in your post, but it seems like you're trying to say that even though the rings give different critical bonuses: Cruel Ring gives +5%/chance +20%/damage Critical Ring gives 10%/chance +10%/damage They equal out to give the same bonus. This is true. This is not true in the case of the Maple Claw / Avarice. The Maple Claw gives 0%/chance 0%/damage. The Avarice (correct me if I'm wrong) gives 7%/chance 7%/damage. Now... in the case of the rings... the damage bonus given by the critical is equal. If you want proof, you can refer to that needlessly refered to thread. Time for some math! Just like how the max of 3.3k per star is higher than 2.9k per star. 7% is greater than 0%! That means it's bigger! Isn't it incredible? Now, because 7% =/= 0%, we can conclude that the Avarice gets a bigger bonus from critical! ...are you getting this so far? In this case, the critical bonus is clearly greater than the attack bonus. Proof being he hits 3.3k/2.9k max. Even if you don't understand how it works (It's okay, they'll teach you in... Algebra 1 I think), you should still be able to tell 3.3k is better than 2.9k. So even if you don't understand any of the math it's still okay. Just use the Avarice. [/quote] Lol...no need to get fired up. Not everyone on Maple is proficient at math. I myself am too lazy to do it. But like the guy before me said...you have a whole 8 attack difference...thats a lot. His observed attacks may not be accurate because he doesn't always observe the max damage. It would be better to do calculations with the damage range on your stats then observed damage. Like I said, I'm not sure about how crit works for sins, but if you think about it this way: For the ring is 5% vs. 10% and for the avarice/maple claw its 0% vs. 7%... I guess the extra crit is beneficial, but I suggest that you redo the calculations with the +8 attack of the maple claw factored in. I think in general having +8 attack would be more beneficial. You also get the added s |
My Characters: crzyazazin - 67 Bera Assassin
AutumnAzn 06/29/10
+ PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT
| If you are too lazy to do the math, I don't think you should be spouting false advice. I just have to assume that a person who needs help is willing to provide accurate information, seeing as it is in their best interest to do so. Yes, that is what you think. That is wrong. True, sadly, with booster on, both claws attack at the same speed of 100 throws per minute so it wouldn't matter anyway. Judging from his use of a Maple Claw and his avatar, he looks dexless. If this is true, he won't be switching to a new claw until level 64. Using the wrong claw during all that time could hurt his training speed, not that you care. But yes, he's probably already switched to a Skanda. End of discussion. |
My Characters: AutumnAzn - 152 Scania Night Lord
bballdragon5 06/29/10
+ PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT
| [quote] AutumnAzn : If you are too lazy to do the math, I don't think you should be spouting false advice. I just have to assume that a person who needs help is willing to provide accurate information, seeing as it is in their best interest to do so. Yes, that is what you think. That is wrong. True, sadly, with booster on, both claws attack at the same speed of 100 throws per minute so it wouldn't matter anyway. Judging from his use of a Maple Claw and his avatar, he looks dexless. If this is true, he won't be switching to a new claw until level 64. Using the wrong claw during all that time could hurt his training speed, not that you care. But yes, he's probably already switched to a Skanda. End of discussion. [/quote] Lol hes still lvl 43, so probably not yet. Well I'm too lazy to do the math, but I'm still trying to give advice. Who are you to criticize? Anyways, at his lvl, he probably doesn't have booster because the classic build doesnt put points in booster till lvl 50. Even if he had booster, it would be at a low lvl, and the mp cost is a lot, so its a lot easier to have a faster claw. Also, once again, the calculations you are doing are solely based off his observations. You need to do them based off of his actual damage range. Look, I'm not trying to criticize or anything. I appreciate your opinion and in the beginning, I did say correct me if I'm wrong. But, after thinking about it, I don't believe your calculations are accurate because there are too many assumptions. With this being said, I feel like even if he had the 7% crit, there is the whole +8 attack. Since you are good at math, you should try to calculate out how much that would factor in comparing normal critical and +8 attack vs enhanced critical. If you can show me the math there, then I will agree with you. |
My Characters: crzyazazin - 67 Bera Assassin
AutumnAzn 06/29/10
+ PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT
| I criticise (SP) because when you give bad advice and the person takes it, it hurts them. No, you should have booster by then. Even if you're not trying to, you are. If you aren't trying to, what exactly is the point of trying to bring up irrelavant things, such as the 8 attack difference and booster when I've already explained it? Your words don't even closely resemble your actions. If you're asking to be corrected if you're wrong, and proof is given, I don't see why you shouldn't just accept it? Swallow your ego. It is impossible to calculate the effect 8 attack without knowing his current ATT and LUK. Also, even if he does, I don't feel the need to spend my time calculating it seeing as I already know what the result will be. You can do it if you want, it's not that hard. And yes, I am fired up. I'm trollbait. It's basic math. I'm annoyed that you can't do it. You won't take the proof, and you have none of your own other than "I think in general having +8 attack would be more beneficial. That's annoying too, why are you trying to say someone is wrong when they've proved it and you're "too lazy to do the math"? The thing that "fires me up" the most is that you are giving person bad advice when you yourself have no idea which is better, apart from your "I think it's better". The reason this pisses me off the most is because it doesn't hurt you AT ALL when the other person takes the advice, the but other person can get screwed over. In this situation it may not hurt much, but there are other situations where you may end up leading the person to making a big mistake, whether in maple or in real life. If you're too lazy to spend a few minutes of your day helping others, DON'T DO IT. And then you are asking "Who are you to criticize?" when you yourself said "CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG". CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG MY ASS. |
My Characters: AutumnAzn - 152 Scania Night Lord
Lurkerkiller
+ PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT
| Autumn, I can see why you are angry and I'll try to explain something to you, and please listen and try to respect me, because I respect you and see you all the time posting here. I won't give you the reason of, "Because I think so" but will try to math and show it to you. Let's assume his highest NON-CRIT damage is 2,000 on 1 star with L7. Now knowing that passive crit adds 100% damage, and L7 is 150% itself already and with avarice, assuming it gives an extra 7% more, would make his crits do 107%, and with the maple claw, 100% more damage. Now, avarice hitting a crit off will do a MAX damage on 1 star would be ~3,426 damage if you cross multiply correctly and then divide. With the maple claw BEFORE adding in extra attack it gives his crits should do, ~3,333 damage. Now assuming his average between the two weapons before adding in the extra attack from the maple claw.... Avarice - ~ 3092 damage on 1 star. Maple Claw - ~2,666 damage on 1 star. Now, that might seem like a good difference in choosing the avarice, but this is without taking into calculations that the maple claw has 8 more weapon attack, which makes a HUGE difference. From my experience, 8 weapon attack is more than 400 damage at his level, but I could be wrong because like you did mention, it all truly depends on his total amount of ATT and LUK. Either way, if hes in doubt, he should just go with the avarice because it will crit more often and be helpful to him. Also, another thing I want to point out is that there is no way the avarice is hitting so much higher on crits than the maple claw. He needs to make more attacks and see correctly, but if it really is hitting that much higher, it's due to the avarice's bonus crit damage it gives is MUCH higher than 7%. EDIT: For some reason my math seems wrong, it's getting kinda late for me, I'll see if I can do anything about it now and if I can't, I'll fix it later. EDIT2: Nvm, it should be correctly, if it isn't please let me know what I did wrong in terms of what his crit damage would be. |
My Characters: Walkling - 101 Windia Hermit
bballdragon5
+ PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT
| [quote] Lurkerkiller : Autumn, I can see why you are angry and I'll try to explain something to you, and please listen and try to respect me, because I respect you and see you all the time posting here. I won't give you the reason of, "Because I think so" but will try to math and show it to you. Let's assume his highest NON-CRIT damage is 2,000 on 1 star with L7. Now knowing that passive crit adds 100% damage, and L7 is 150% itself already and with avarice, assuming it gives an extra 7% more, would make his crits do 107%, and with the maple claw, 100% more damage. Now, avarice hitting a crit off will do a MAX damage on 1 star would be ~3,426 damage if you cross multiply correctly and then divide. With the maple claw BEFORE adding in extra attack it gives his crits should do, ~3,333 damage. Now assuming his average between the two weapons before adding in the extra attack from the maple claw.... Avarice - ~ 3092 damage on 1 star. Maple Claw - ~2,666 damage on 1 star. Now, that might seem like a good difference in choosing the avarice, but this is without taking into calculations that the maple claw has 8 more weapon attack, which makes a HUGE difference. From my experience, 8 weapon attack is more than 400 damage at his level, but I could be wrong because like you did mention, it all truly depends on his total amount of ATT and LUK. Either way, if hes in doubt, he should just go with the avarice because it will crit more often and be helpful to him. Also, another thing I want to point out is that there is no way the avarice is hitting so much higher on crits than the maple claw. He needs to make more attacks and see correctly, but if it really is hitting that much higher, it's due to the avarice's bonus crit damage it gives is MUCH higher than 7%. [/quote] Thanks. EDIT: I had the same doubt because I truly do not believe that there could be such big of a difference given the attack difference and only 7% more. @Autumn Look, I've been trying to be civil with you. I don't do the math because I don't feel like the need given the assumptions we are making. Even you said yourself that you can't calculate anything with out luck, etc. That was the point I was trying to prove. You are trying to solve a problem by math when you can not because you dont have enough information. I am trying to deduce this by logic. So who knows, its possible that you are giving bad advice as well. Theres a difference between criticising and putting a person down. If you call this criticism, then hell, any insult could be taken as criticism. I know I don't want to give bad advice either, so that is why I said correct me. You made your correction, and yes your math was amazing, but I found there to be assumptions, so I criticised again. I guess you didn't like it when I did that. I've always respected you up to now, and if I had an ego, I apologize. It's just the way I type. I never meant to insult you or anything. I applaud you for your math skills, but you saying don't have |
My Characters: crzyazazin - 67 Bera Assassin
BasilMarket is Copyright 2004-2008 BasilMarket.com (archive reconstruction). Data recovered from the Internet Archive Wayback Machine for the Classic MapleStory community.
