Skrato's Post-balance analysis

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thread starter Skrato Jun 12 2010 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Edited with more information. PLEASE ALL PALADINS check the damage section. Skrato/Hypocrism's Post-Balance Analysis What is the purpose of this topic? I will be updating information on the balance patch which is so vitally important to the future of the paladin class. This won't be a simple stating of what is going to happen, it will provide a ground for discussion of the effects this will have on our gameplay and the Paladin class as a whole. What will be changed? This is taken from the Nexon site, not any other source, as there may be small changes from Nexon. Page Skills Threaten will reduce attack and defense by a percentage value, and also avoidability. WK Skills Thunder charges for sword and bw will stack with other charges. The damage for flame charge for sword and bw will increase. The range of charged blow will increase. Paladin Skills Blast's damage will increase. Divine charge for sword and bw will increase. Social Discussion Obviously the balance patch is going to be an overhaul of the Paladin class. Our damage will increase by the worth of another charge on neutral targets and this makes us competitive bossers. We will be potentially the best bigfoot killers. This will probably cause a lot of people to make/leech Paladins since bandwagoners always follow the class which has the potential in the one area that they want to excel in. Current Paladins will need to make sure that we keep the same attitude to our class, plodding along without being drawn into any negativity that the paladin class might receive, and letting new Paladins know that we won't accept any "mischief" on their parts bringing disrespect to our class. Practical Discussion Paladins' skill builds will likely change all the way from first job. Hybrid will now be impossible due to threaten being as effective on BF as HB. In third job, it will be newly variable which order Paladins max their charges. Lightning will most likely be maxed second due to its stacking effects, however the battle will be between fire or ice first. It seems that with lightning stackable the best path is fire first followed by lightning, and then training at Vikerolas is possible as well as training at neutral maps when both charges are maxed. More information in the damage section. Bossing/training will be basically unchanged for paladins except that it will be necessary to use threaten at some bosses, such as bigfoot in particular. Threaten has a similar effect to HB after the balance due to decreasing the physical attack of monsters by a percentage. The accuracy of bosses can also be decreased, assisting classes like NLs or other long range attackers who are most adversely affected by any knockbacks. Damage Discussion I don't want to make any sweeping assumptions about how the damage system is going to work - we don't have enough data from KMS to calculate it accurately yet. However, I want to start preparing to discover how it's going to work. For this I'll need help from many Paladins. I wou

My Characters: Hypocrism - 146 Windia Paladin

xterryxxbuix 06/12/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

read it have nothing to add as of yet just wanted to say thank you for creating this :]

My Characters: xErniexxEEx - 174 Bera Paladin

Ghostfaced 06/12/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

With the new Threaten will we be able to BF much sooner then the current 150ish mark? Making getting blast and stance after ACB viable?

My Characters: iDazKurupt - 102 Broa White Knight

CorsairKen 06/12/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] Ghostfaced : With the new Threaten will we be able to BF much sooner then the current 150ish mark? Making getting blast and stance after ACB viable? [/quote] As long as you threaten it before you fight one (if your hp isn't high enough that is, like mine).

My Characters: RuneDefender - 141 Mardia Paladin

semisonic85 06/12/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

I don't think that going ice first would make 70-90 slow. I went with ice first and I plowed through pretty well at Red Kents. The only real difficulty I had was for the first few levels when my ice charge didn't have many points in. Once I hit about 74, I was doing great. If I had stackable lightning, it would have made the mid 80's go by a lot faster.

My Characters: GoldenCrush - 105 Scania White Knight

Viaje 06/12/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] Skrato : Current Paladins will need to make sure that we keep the same attitude to our class, plodding along without being drawn into any negativity that the paladin class might receive, and letting new Paladins know that we won't accept any "mischief" on their parts bringing disrespect to our class. [/quote] loldisrespect - Play the game how you want. This is the Paladin attitude I absolutely abhor. Who the hell is anyone to tell other people what you will "accept"? Moreso, what power does anyone think that have against those who do "unacceptable" things? Give me a break. You don't see NLs, for example, running around creating secret clubs and telling anyone they don't like "YOU CAN'T PLAY WITH US!" [quote] Skrato : ...however the battle will be between fire and ice first. Ice first will allow VERY fast wyvern training at level 90, but potentially slow 70-90 training. [/quote] BS, I say. Ice first will only boost current Red Wyvern training by a measly 6%. Meanwhile, the new Fire Charge and dual-charging will boost neutral damage from a previous 1.25% max to 1.75%. So, you know Himes, Gallops, and all those other monsters that people would say were "comparable to slightly faster than Red Wyverns"? Well, now they take more damage than their elementally-weak counterparts. To continue my point... Red Wyverns: 53,000 HP - 2500 Exp Galloperas: 43,000 HP - 2500 Exp Ice+Lightning on Ice-weak: 1.1 * 1.25 * 1.25 = 1.71875 Fire+Lightning on neutral: 1.4 * 1.25 = 1.75 And we all know which monster has better mobs... Granted, finding a channel at Gallops suck, but I particularly enjoyed party training there.

My Characters: Zyrise - 140 Khaini Paladin

gunblade72 06/12/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] Viaje : BS, I say. Ice first will only boost current Red Wyvern training by a measly 6%. Meanwhile, the new Fire Charge and dual-charging will boost neutral damage from a previous 1.25% max to 1.75%. So, you know Himes, Gallops, and all those other monsters that people would say were "comparable to slightly faster than Red Wyverns"? Well, now they take more damage than their elementally-weak counterparts. To continue my point... Red Wyverns: 53,000 HP - 2500 Exp Galloperas: 43,000 HP - 2500 Exp Ice+Lightning on Ice-weak: 1.1 * 1.25 * 1.25 = 1.71875 Fire+Lightning on neutral: 1.4 * 1.25 = 1.75 And we all know which monster has better mobs... Granted, finding a channel at Gallops suck, but I particularly enjoyed party training there. [/quote] Yeah that and, wouldn't 140% fire charge + thunder charge completely own blue wyverns? Which will make blue wyverns way easier and better to train on.

My Characters: DivineHado - 147 Bera Paladin

ReficulDeil 06/12/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

So, what would happen if you stacked lightning + fire on scarlion (lightning strong,fire weak) O_o? (1.4*1.25)*(1.25*?)

My Characters: subiphobic - 50 KradiaGMS Night Walker

Skrato 06/12/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

I wasn't aware that our damage on neutral will be higher than on ice weak. Can someone confirm this? Viaje, I understand that you don't like the attitude I take towards the newer paladins. The problem is that they will be affecting us in a negative way and I would personally prefer to have a tight-knit community like we have now with them included. For this to happen we have to work together and that's what I mean by letting them know that we don't want them ruining the trust we have with other Paladins and the rest of the ms community as well.

My Characters: Hypocrism - 146 Windia Paladin

semisonic85 06/12/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] gunblade72 : Yeah that and, wouldn't 140% fire charge + thunder charge completely own blue wyverns? Which will make blue wyverns way easier and better to train on. [/quote] That's what I've been thinking. I can't wait to try it out.

My Characters: GoldenCrush - 105 Scania White Knight

Mancartia + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Another thing to consider with Thunder Charge is that it may not be helpful until it's very near maxed. I have no evidence that single charges are gonna drop to 25% elemental advantage (when not double cast). If they do, the balance patch is actually nerfing level 7x-8x White Knights (old: 1.2*1.5 = 180% fire, new: 1.4*1.25 = 175% fire). So hopefully it's still gonna give the full 150% advantage. If casting Thunder Charge immediately drops the advantage from 50% to 25%, then it needs to be giving at least 121% on its own to be worthwhile - which takes until level 22. So you're gonna be using your primary charge until level 87 just as it was before the balance patch (except on neutral targets, and the fact that Fire got buffed). Something they really didn't describe well is the increase to ACB's range. It does take some explaining. Warrior mob attacks have 2 different ranges. There's range to the first target, and splash range. The range to the first target is simply your normal swing/stab range - what depends on weapon type. Then, once it's selected that first target, it makes a splash hitbox out from there, to hit more targets. This range is a specific number for each skill (independent of weapon type). In the case of ACB, the splash range is going from 150 pixels to 180 pixels. The initial swing range is not being affected.

My Characters: Cult - 120 Bera Dark Knight

Skrato 06/13/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] Mancartia : Another thing to consider with Thunder Charge is that it may not be helpful until it's very near maxed. I have no evidence that single charges are gonna drop to 25% elemental advantage (when not double cast). If they do, the balance patch is actually nerfing level 7x-8x White Knights (old: 1.2*1.5 = 180% fire, new: 1.4*1.25 = 175% fire). So hopefully it's still gonna give the full 150% advantage. If casting Thunder Charge immediately drops the advantage from 50% to 25%, then it needs to be giving at least 121% on its own to be worthwhile - which takes until level 22. So you're gonna be using your primary charge until level 87 just as it was before the balance patch (except on neutral targets, and the fact that Fire got buffed). Something they really didn't describe well is the increase to ACB's range. It does take some explaining. Warrior mob attacks have 2 different ranges. There's range to the first target, and splash range. The range to the first target is simply your normal swing/stab range - what depends on weapon type. Then, once it's selected that first target, it makes a splash hitbox out from there, to hit more targets. This range is a specific number for each skill (independent of weapon type). In the case of ACB, the splash range is going from 150 pixels to 180 pixels. The initial swing range is not being affected. [/quote] I agree. I wonder if WKs could go to vikerolas at level 90 with max fire and lit - will they have the necessary accuracy?

My Characters: Hypocrism - 146 Windia Paladin

Ghostfaced 06/13/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] Skrato : I agree. I wonder if WKs could go to vikerolas at level 90 with max fire and lit - will they have the necessary accuracy? [/quote] I'm almost positive vikerolas have less avoid then dualies, so you should be able to 100% hit them well before 90.

My Characters: iDazKurupt - 102 Broa White Knight

semisonic85 06/13/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

I was able to hit them at level 90 without a problem, and my equips aren't that great.

My Characters: GoldenCrush - 105 Scania White Knight

coalman4444 06/13/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

I was able to train their effectively with 70% hit at 76 and got better exp than WR

My Characters: LastRespect - 97 Windia White Knight