Holy charge vs HH

basilmarket.com forums : Page to Paladin | 15 posts archived

thread starter onelimit1 Mar 21 2010 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

when i reach 4th job i was wondering which skill is better to max first (lv 124-133) I am thinking in terms of FAST training. Everyone vote and leave feedback.

My Characters: alpha1111 - 115 Scania White Knight

img0ne 03/22/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

lmfao, no holy charge at all... not even noob pages say Holy charge... but then again, if your planning to become a pally... you might be a bit more mature then other classes.

My Characters: nod2mybeats - 60 Windia Page

IcedCap 03/22/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

You might want to go through this thread to see the arguments of both sides. @img0ne: I suggest you read that thread too. :P

My Characters: MyelinSheath - 184 Scania Paladin

sevenofnine 03/22/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

I would imagine that O4 training with max HH > Skeles with Holy. That said, what do you plan to do all of those levels before HH is maxed? O_o I flew through 12X thanks to Skeles, so I'm partial to the quick pay off that ACB + Holy/Divine Charge brings!

My Characters: EvilCowKing - 158 Windia Paladin

runecaster 03/22/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

If you go HH first, odds are your best sources of exp are going to be Wyverns (blue), Himes (+priest), and Newtie parties. However, the exp won't match up with what you'd get going Holy first. The benefit of going Holy is, obviously, getting that immediate impact. Even a lower level of Holy at Skeles is probably going to outdo any other training area available to you. Holy also maxes out at 20 (as opposed to 30 in HH), which makes the wait a bit more bearable. It's pretty much which tradeoff you're willing to do. Either you sacrifice exp from mid-12x to mid-13x in order to get to OB4 earlier and reap in the benefits, or you get to Skeles immediately and max HH by 140. The point in favor I will give to Holy is that HH-exclusive training is impossible to do until maxed. With the Holy build, you not only reap the benefits from earlier Skele training but, as you pump points into HH, can integrate into your training in order to give yourself a marginal exp increase per level. The point for early HH is that it loses favor in later levels. You might want to max it earlier in order to get as much out of it as you can. And using HH on a mob of Himes feels really satisfying.

My Characters: lxpaIadinxI - 141 Khaini Paladin

penguinlvr 03/22/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Q5 training is comparable to skeles, so Holy can come after IMO. However, there is a certain point at which you can kill skeles fast enough that it's faster than HH training at O4.

My Characters: Oggrimar - 134 Bera Paladin

newrichboy + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] runecaster : If you go HH first, odds are your best sources of exp are going to be Wyverns (blue), Himes (+priest), and Newtie parties. However, the exp won't match up with what you'd get going Holy first. The benefit of going Holy is, obviously, getting that immediate impact. Even a lower level of Holy at Skeles is probably going to outdo any other training area available to you. Holy also maxes out at 20 (as opposed to 30 in HH), which makes the wait a bit more bearable. It's pretty much which tradeoff you're willing to do. Either you sacrifice exp from mid-12x to mid-13x in order to get to OB4 earlier and reap in the benefits, or you get to Skeles immediately and max HH by 140. The point in favor I will give to Holy is that HH-exclusive training is impossible to do until maxed. With the Holy build, you not only reap the benefits from earlier Skele training but, as you pump points into HH, can integrate into your training in order to give yourself a marginal exp increase per level. The point for early HH is that it loses favor in later levels. You might want to max it earlier in order to get as much out of it as you can. And using HH on a mob of Himes feels really satisfying. [/quote] You're forgetting that the monsters at Road of Regret 4 are lightning AND Fire weak (with double stack, it'll be awesome), and they give about the same amount of experience as skeles, so this map is very comparable to exp at skeles. So, you won't be damaging your %/hr during your 12X, and you'll be reaping a hefty reward (piece of times ftw) until lv133 when HH is maxed and you can move on to OB4. Edit: I was not referring to efficiency of training with dual charges in my previous paragraph. It compares training with (preferred) lightning at RoR4. I was just mentioning that RoR4 monsters are Lightning and Fire weak, so either charges could be used there to get an elemental boost (or when balance patch comes out, you could use both charges for some nice damage. If you didn't get holy yet, of course).

My Characters: PageZeke - 120 Khaini Paladin

runecaster 03/22/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] newrichboy : You're forgetting that the monsters at Road of Regret 4 are lightning AND Fire weak (with double stack, it'll be awesome), and they give about the same amount of experience as skeles, so this map is very comparable to exp at skeles. So, you won't be damaging your %/hr during your 12X, and you'll be reaping a hefty reward (piece of times ftw) until lv133 when HH is maxed and you can move on to OB4. [/quote] Until we're explicitly told when the balance patch will be, using a build following the assumption that it will be "soon" is faulty reasoning. You can't tell him to go HH-first and to just hope that his charges will stack by the time he's 125.

My Characters: lxpaIadinxI - 141 Khaini Paladin

newrichboy + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] runecaster : Until we're explicitly told when the balance patch will be, using a build following the assumption that it will be "soon" is faulty reasoning. You can't tell him to go HH-first and to just hope that his charges will stack by the time he's 125. [/quote] With only Lightning, I believe (from what I'm experiencing right now) it's comparable to skeles (thats ONE charge). Now imagine with Lightning AND fire, is what I was saying With that said.... Lv.123-132 -> Lightning + Ror4 Exp ~=~ Holy + Skele's Exp Lv. 133+ (Until HH isn't useful anymore, Don't know what level exactly; probably around 15X) -> HH + O4 Epx > Holy + Skele's Exp

My Characters: PageZeke - 120 Khaini Paladin

sevenofnine + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] newrichboy : With only Lightning, I believe (from what I'm experiencing right now) it's comparable to skeles (thats ONE charge). Now imagine with Lightning AND fire, is what I was saying With that said.... Lv.123-132 -> Lightning + Ror4 Exp ~=~ Holy + Skele's Exp Lv. 133+ (Until HH isn't useful anymore, Don't know what level exactly; probably around 15X) -> HH + O4 Epx > Holy + Skele's Exp [/quote] For monsters that have multiple elemental weaknesses, when you dual stack, you will not be getting a 25% elemetal damage boost from each element.

My Characters: EvilCowKing - 158 Windia Paladin

newrichboy 03/22/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] sevenofnine : For monsters that have multiple elemental weaknesses, when you dual stack, you will not be getting a 25% elemetal damage boost from each element. [/quote] I'm not sure what you mean by a 25% elemental boost from the monsters. From what I remember, you get a 1.5x boost from elemental weak monsters when you use the element against them o.o And with dual stacks, it's brought down to 1.25. Correct me if I'm mistaken

My Characters: PageZeke - 120 Khaini Paladin

Skrato 03/22/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

HH training at OB4 needs 10 levels to do efficiently - even with max HH we still wait around for HH to charge - and still not a massive amount faster than Skeles at 133-140. Therefore I recommend all Paladins to follow the build ACB > Holy > HH.

My Characters: Hypocrism - 146 Windia Paladin

Viaje 03/22/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] newrichboy : You're forgetting that the monsters at Road of Regret 4 are lightning AND Fire weak (with double stack, it'll be awesome), and they give about the same amount of experience as skeles, so this map is very comparable to exp at skeles. So, you won't be damaging your %/hr during your 12X, and you'll be reaping a hefty reward (piece of times ftw) until lv133 when HH is maxed and you can move on to OB4. [/quote] Except dual charging only gives bonuses for one weakness. The difference the balance patch will make at Regrets will not be in that it gives another weakness, but simply that Fire will give a 140% bonus. This will mean that maxing Holy to go to skeles will have less of a relative benefit.

My Characters: Zyrise - 125 Khaini Paladin

CorsairKen 03/22/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

I don't really care much about Heaven's Hammer, only that it helps me take crog's loot before anyone else does. I can wait until 163-167 to max it.

My Characters: RuneDefender - 141 Mardia Paladin

newrichboy + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] Viaje : Except dual charging only gives bonuses for one weakness. The difference the balance patch will make at Regrets will not be in that it gives another weakness, but simply that Fire will give a 140% bonus. This will mean that maxing Holy to go to skeles will have less of a relative benefit. [/quote] ROFL OMG ZYRISE! XD I added you on Buddy a few days ago XDD. But I wasn't talking about the dual charges (I just mentioned how it would be with the addition), I was talking about now.

My Characters: PageZeke - 120 Khaini Paladin