ST or Dexless?

basilmarket.com forums : Warrior | 15 posts archived

thread starter amazingant25 Mar 17 2010 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

So, I'm thinking of doing 1 of 2 things. Staying Dexless or going reg Dex to use a ST. Which would be better? So far I have a Zhelm, DepStar and about 300mil for funding. Chances are I will never go 1H so I want to do what would be best for 2h EG.

My Characters: Hero2HSword - 59 Khaini Fighter

CorsairKen 03/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Why not stay dexless and make Buccaneer friends? Nibleheim + Speed Infusion (lvl 11+) = win if you have a Buccaneer as a training partner and/or have a Buccaneer in your party when bossing (which happens to me 95% of the time nowadays).

My Characters: RuneDefender - 141 Mardia Paladin

amazingant25 03/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Just putting it out there that I'd probably never use reverse equips because if i come across something better I'm still stuck with the old one >.>

My Characters: Hero2HSword - 59 Khaini Fighter

Nhil 03/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

I guess it depends on the attack of the Stonetooth. If you can get your hands on a 125+ attack stonetooth then go for it. If not then I'd suggest you picking a different 2-H sword or just being 1-H sword + shield.

My Characters: Pudii - 156 Galicia Hero

amazingant25 03/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

1H + shield is more expensive then ST so I'd probably go ST instead.

My Characters: Hero2HSword - 59 Khaini Fighter

danny111222 03/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

1 handed with a good attack shield = a godly combo

My Characters: Dante111222 - 82 Scania White Knight

yamiryu 03/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

ST is basically only for if you already put dex into your character, say back a couple of years ago when a high amount of dex was advised. besides that, going with a 1h+ shield will practically always beat out a ST even if you start off with a pretty bad shield and a decent sword (since later in your mapling career, you're almost guaranteed of making more money). Nibelheims today are usually yellow scrolled to be comparable to ST or 1h+shield combos which is actually doable now with wide availability of maker stuff (and you get to keep your low dex).

My Characters: YamiRyuu - 149 Broa Paladin

Zeratul 03/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

40 base dex

My Characters: iThrowBread - 105 Scania Crusader

iHuntPandas 03/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] yamiryu : ST is basically only for if you already put dex into your character, say back a couple of years ago when a high amount of dex was advised. besides that, going with a 1h+ shield will practically always beat out a ST even if you start off with a pretty bad shield and a decent sword (since later in your mapling career, you're almost guaranteed of making more money). Nibelheims today are usually yellow scrolled to be comparable to ST or 1h+shield combos which is actually doable now with wide availability of maker stuff (and you get to keep your low dex). [/quote] seriously depends on funding, Neither are the best choice, sure a 20+ attack Shield with a 130+ 1h will outdamage the average 115+ St, But if you can afford to scroll a godly St 135+, i'd say its similar ... Overall i think If you can afford a 120+ St, go for that. If you can do better get a sword/shield. And if you are even richer, i'd go back to a St..

yamiryu 03/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] ihuntpandas : seriously depends on funding, Neither are the best choice, sure a 20+ attack Shield with a 130+ 1h will outdamage the average 115+ St, But if you can afford to scroll a godly St 135+, i'd say its similar ... Overall i think If you can afford a 120+ St, go for that. If you can do better get a sword/shield. And if you are even richer, i'd go back to a St.. [/quote] it is true that there is some funding required to use a proper 1h+ shield combo, but it wouldn't be that hard. the example i am going to use is a 125 atk ST which is my next goal for weapons. using the 8/7 ratio, you would need a total of 143 attack (excluding attack from other equips). seeing as the average clean ST and executioner is 101 and 111 (using advanced diamond in maker since they're cheap and STs can't be makered), giving a 10 atk advantage, an executioner that has been scrolled equally to the ST to make a 125 ST would make a 135 atk executioner only needing an 8 atk shield which right now there is a scania basil bid for a 9 atk shield for 100m. now, the evidence i gave is incredibly circumstantial, but it gives a pretty good idea of how little atk is required of a shield (which is the main reason why the 1h setup is so expensive) is needed to beat out a ST. there is also the fact that STs that are beyond 120 atk are incredibly rare while almost all the 1h warriors i know past lv 140 have 130+ atk 1h swords and 16+ atk shields. it is true that 130+ atk 1h swords and 16+ atk shields are expensive, but so are 120+ atk STs and usually granted only a little more funding, a 1h set can go a lot farther than a ST.

My Characters: YamiRyuu - 149 Broa Paladin

iHuntPandas 03/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] yamiryu : it is true that there is some funding required to use a proper 1h+ shield combo, but it wouldn't be that hard. the example i am going to use is a 125 atk ST which is my next goal for weapons. using the 8/7 ratio, you would need a total of 143 attack (excluding attack from other equips). seeing as the average clean ST and executioner is 101 and 111 (using advanced diamond in maker since they're cheap and STs can't be makered), giving a 10 atk advantage, an executioner that has been scrolled equally to the ST to make a 125 ST would make a 135 atk executioner only needing an 8 atk shield which right now there is a scania basil bid for a 9 atk shield for 100m. now, the evidence i gave is incredibly circumstantial, but it gives a pretty good idea of how little atk is required of a shield (which is the main reason why the 1h setup is so expensive) is needed to beat out a ST. there is also the fact that STs that are beyond 120 atk are incredibly rare while almost all the 1h warriors i know past lv 140 have 130+ atk 1h swords and 16+ atk shields. it is true that 130+ atk 1h swords and 16+ atk shields are expensive, but so are 120+ atk STs and usually granted only a little more funding, a 1h set can go a lot farther than a ST. [/quote] Yeah, anyways whichever way you choose its good, as long as it's not a 2h with normal speed, Whoever has more fundings will win essentially, i Prefer ST, Because of Charged Blow's range, and the smexiness of course.

Bomber321 03/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

If it werent for the fact that ST has become a rare item again, compared to when it came out of the gacha boxes, id say g for it. Now? dont bother and stay dexless. You will do more damage thrugh your whole carrier, less meso consuming in the long run, while ST you must wait for 100 for full potential, which god know when your getting one thats actually decent enough to compare to being dexless.

My Characters: Bomber123 - 145 Broa Paladin

Sakuraba 03/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

First of all, the TS said that he wouldn't go 1h sword, so why are we talking about it? o_o. Shouldn't we compare DEXless 2h swords with a Dex ST and possibly a 1h sword if he could afford it? As for the 2h sword vs. 1h sword argument, I'd say that at higher W.ATTs, the Stonetooth gains more of an advantage over 1h swords (not Red Katana), though I'm not exactly sure if this would lead to an advantage over fast (5) 1h swords completely. The reason I think this is because of the STR multipliers, 1h swords having 4.0 and 2h swords having 4.6. The weapon attack boost from 1h sword/shield is consistent and not proportional to the total W.ATT as a whole. Because of this, the say 15 ATT boost from 1h becomes less as a percentage to the total damage range. On the ST's side, the boost does not falter. Here's a hypothetical situation, but it is not reality because of the Dex needed for ST Swords: lv 150 750 STR (863 STR with MW) 0 DEX 32 natural W.ATT (3 ring + 15 glove + 4 cape + 10 MoN) + 20 (Cider) 120 ATT Stonetooth Sword = 6828.056 max range 134 ATT Reverse Executioner + 15 ATT Shield = 6938.52 max range Though the Stonetooth loses out, the difference between the two isn't too much. With an Apple and higher W.ATT equips (which aren't the best right here), the Stonetooth would win. However, I recognize the trouble of getting the DEX necessary for a ST. Which becomes stronger at higher levels depends on the W.ATT.

My Characters: Etherlite - 107 Bellocan Aran in Misery

Bomber321 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] Sakuraba : First of all, the TS said that he wouldn't go 1h sword, so why are we talking about it? o_o. Shouldn't we compare DEXless 2h swords with a Dex ST and possibly a 1h sword if he could afford it? [/quote] Theres a better chance he canget a cheaper 1h set than getting a good potential stonetooth at lower prices. [quote] sakuraba : lv 150 750 STR (863 STR with MW) 0 DEX 32 natural W.ATT (3 ring + 15 glove + 4 cape + 10 MoN) + 20 (Cider) 120 ATT Stonetooth Sword = 6828.056 max range 134 ATT Reverse Executioner + 15 ATT Shield = 6938.52 max range [/quote] Theres your problem, he wants to HAVE dex with a stonetooth, this arguement is invalid due to the fact if he had dex the ST side would be lower in terms of range AND damage. Edit: On that note, i bet you will spend more meso getting the equips needed as a dexless ST user than the meso to ge the ST alone, and he only has 300m funding. He's better off as 1h dexless w/ shield.

My Characters: Bomber123 - 145 Broa Paladin

CorsairKen 03/17/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] amazingant25 : Just putting it out there that I'd probably never use reverse equips because if i come across something better I'm still stuck with the old one >.> [/quote] Its easy to pull off 125 attk+ on your reverse weapon. If I had 300m like you I'd go Reverse Nibleheim. I'm never laying a finger on 1h swords because 1: Executioners costs the exact same as Nibleheim if you make it yourself 2: Premade Executioners cost more than Nibleheim 3: Throw in an attack shield and you'll need another 300m+ to fund that 4: And finally, Speed infusion lvl 11+ makes normal speed 2h swords to fast 4 like Red Katana which is why I mentioned make bucc friends (which don't cost you a dime)

My Characters: RuneDefender - 141 Mardia Paladin