cbs wont be the only ones replaced

basilmarket.com forums : Dual Blade | 16 posts archived

thread starter tuanjusttuan Feb 21 2010 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

goodbye se-ers at boss runs, hello thorn mules! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFfn5jy4cn8 i think that says it all. normal gen = 50k, thorn + ring = 150k, now imagine nls? GG NOTE - the skill is only lvl 15 or 16 EDIT - thorns max level gives 35% chance and 250% damage i finally found the link where i read the details from - http://forums.asiasoftsea.net/showthread.php?p=11669803 thanks to fiel/locky92 for posting this around =D EDIT 2 - its good and bad news, bowmasters dont be affraid! from what we can see of the latest video's of dual bladers, SE and THORNS STACK? OMFGWTFH4X? however this is probably bad news for all other classes apart from crit hiting classes lol. crit classes will probably be seen as the only classes really needed as "attackers" for boss runs if things continue this way. GG nexon. imagine bm (lowest crit rate base i think?) 40% crit + 10% ring + 15% se + 35% thorns = 100% critical. all critical hiting job becomes 100% rate. i see any other form of attackers going down hill. for those who says, this class wont boss. you probably have 0 experience in bossing, cause if u had experience, you would know nls and bm (two of the most wanted attacker jobs) wiill "need" this character cause of the bonus damage. also, they have a def skill of some sort, so they should be able to take a hit. also the 1v1 savage blow can be used at bosses, cause it does like 5k average in a test server, throw in an apple and some godly equips and it should be 20k x 16 average(dont forget crits), so they dont have to "jump" into bosses. time to make a nl or aran or bm . MY APOLOGIES TO BOWMAN CLASS!

gtbROX 02/21/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Pretty ignorant of you... Have you ever thought that maybe SE stacks with that other crit? Without Shads who's going to do the seduce muling? Only shads have the survivability and endurance to do it..

My Characters: gtbFISH - 155 Broa Bishop

tuanjusttuan + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

whats funny is that bowmasters and marksman wont even want their own se. they would want thorns instead =D @ above who says that these guys havent got defence skills? infact they do. its just hard to know exactly what the def skill does because of the way its translated. also i dont think people "enjoy" being seduce mules, because hanging on a rope or w/e they do is just awesome. and reason why it probably isnt stack able is as others have mentioned is that too much damage will be given (as in critical rate) 10% from ring, 35% from thorns, 15% from se = 60% and thats just for non critical jobs, now look at the jobs that do crit - archers = + 40%, sin +50% and so on. basically way to overpowered. anyways i think that thorns will probably get nerfed. but if it doesnt. GG

Gamesta64 02/21/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

I think Nexon caught on to the fact that most Maplers are damage hoars >.>

My Characters: fireworks64 - 153 Windia F/P Arch Mage

iBlob + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] gtbROX : Pretty ignorant of you... Have you ever thought that maybe SE stacks with that other crit? Without Shads who's going to do the seduce muling? Only shads have the survivability and endurance to do it.. [/quote] Err Crit buffs stacking would be cool but weird for some classes. It would give classes w/o passive crits 10% ring, 35% thornns, and 15% SE for a crit rate of 60% And for NL's 110%?Arans 120%?

My Characters: iDegenerated - 71 Bera White Knight

gtbROX 02/21/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] iBlob : Err Crit buffs stacking would be cool but weird for some classes. It would give classes w/o passive crits 10% ring, 35% thornns, and 15% SE for a crit rate of 60% And for NL's 110%?Arans 120%? [/quote] Well crit=extra damage and extra damage never hurt.

My Characters: gtbFISH - 155 Broa Bishop

tuanjusttuan + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] gtbROX : Well crit=extra damage and extra damage never hurt. [/quote] that would depend, if a nl was to get all that damage bonus from critical skills, and have critical rate at 100%, they could possibly do 200k a star if funded enough, which imo renders all other attacking classes useless since these guys atk the most number of times. which means the extra damage would hurt alot of people =D

gtbROX 02/21/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] tuanjusttuan : that would depend, if a nl was to get all that damage bonus from critical skills, and have critical rate at 100%, they could possibly do 200k a star if funded enough, which imo renders all other attacking classes useless since these guys atk the most number of times. which means the extra damage would hurt alot of people =D [/quote] No actually you wouldn't be able to do 200k a star... Even with the 400% buff most NLs couldn't even hit up to 80k per star...

My Characters: gtbFISH - 155 Broa Bishop

tuanjusttuan 02/21/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] gtbROX : No actually you wouldn't be able to do 200k a star... Even with the 400% buff most NLs couldn't even hit up to 80k per star... [/quote] wtf? im guessing you are one of those bishops who came after 4th job and made bishop to leech and not to boss. because what you are saying is that nl's you know cant crack 20k? alot of nls can easily crack 30k with apple and se with very little funding. i've seen some godly nl's that can just about reach 50k stars with apple and se. now just replace se and it seems reasonable they do near 150-200k with ring + thorns.

AltairHawk + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Where precisely did you read that it gives +35% Critical Rate? According to the movie, this is definately NOT the case: -The Bishop was wearing the Adventurer's Critical Ring, so that is already 10% Crit Rate. -Assuming the +35% you guys are talking about, his Crit Rate would be 45%, so almost half of his hits would be Criticals. CLEARLY THIS WASN'T THE CASE! -Even assuming a SE effect of +15%, his Crit Rate would be 25%, so 1/4 of his hits would be Criticals. Again, it looked lower than that. -It actually seems most plausible to me that the Crit Rate isn't increased at all for party members, or barely so, and that only Crit damage is buffed. Of course, it is possible that his Thorns was just at a low level, but this isn't too likely. It would make more sense testing a fully maxed skill. So I conclude from all of this that they may get 35% Critical Rate for themselves, but this aspect isn't a party buff, and they can only give extra Critical Damage and maybe a little bit of extra chance to party members. At maximum, this extra rate is +15%, just like SE, meaning that Archers would still be superior bossers, since they would have ranged attacks and probably higher DPS. Now, about whether or not SE stacks with this: It is unlikely. Generally, buffs which increase the same quality simply overlap and only the strongest one is taken into effect. As illustrated by other people, it would just be too broken for NLs, BMs, MMs, and Aran to have near-100% Critical Rate. If they do in fact stack, every non-critting class will be left behind, and these 4 classes will dominate. I guess it could be fun, although the bandwagon would be ridiculous. =P

My Characters: AltairHawk - 87 Bera Ranger

gtbROX 02/21/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] tuanjusttuan : wtf? im guessing you are one of those bishops who came after 4th job and made bishop to leech and not to boss. because what you are saying is that nl's you know cant crack 20k? alot of nls can easily crack 30k with apple and se with very little funding. i've seen some godly nl's that can just about reach 50k stars with apple and se. now just replace se and it seems reasonable they do near 150-200k with ring + thorns. [/quote] No, I made my bishop because like most people I started maplestory and chose a class to play for fun. Actually, you're overexaggerating an NL's damage per star. Not many can do even 30k with apple+se, and the reason they don't do such high damage per star is because in the time it takes some classes to hit a monster once an NL would've thrown many stars. No, NL's cannot do 150-200k per star even with all those boosts...

My Characters: gtbFISH - 155 Broa Bishop

tuanjusttuan + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] AltairHawk : Where precisely did you read that it gives +35% Critical Rate? According to the movie, this is definately NOT the case: -The Bishop was wearing the Adventurer's Critical Ring, so that is already 10% Crit Rate. -Assuming the +35% you guys are talking about, his Crit Rate would be 45%, so almost half of his hits would be Criticals. CLEARLY THIS WASN'T THE CASE! -Even assuming a SE effect of +15%, his Crit Rate would be 25%, so 1/4 of his hits would be Criticals. Again, it was much lower than that. -It actually seems most plausible to me that the Crit Rate isn't increased at all for party members, or barely so, and that only Crit damage is buffed. Of course, it is possible that his Thorns was just at a low level, but this isn't too likely. It would make more sense testing a fully maxed skill. So I conclude from all of this that they may get 35% Critical Rate for themselves, but this aspect isn;t a party buff, and they can only give extra Critical Damage and maybe a little bit of extra chance to party members. [/quote] i apologize and do not remember where i found the details on the skill, ill try find and post it up later. just to clarify to others - the maxed skill gives 35% rate and 250% damage. the one you saw was level 15, and i do not know the effects of level 15 or the full details of how this skill works and you could be right. its too early to know for sure. idk whether to be happy with thorns or to be anoyed? @above im sorry but i have a striped nl that i use to use for zakum runs for fun, it did around 28k a star with a clean or 100%ed skanda and subi's(with apple and se ofcourse) it was blood washed for 10 levels and has TT30.

gtbROX 02/21/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

My Characters: gtbFISH - 155 Broa Bishop

tuanjusttuan 02/21/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] gtbROX : It doesnt even matter what level it is that sounds completely impossible. Unless you can prove it to me with your calculations I don't believe you. [/quote] how can i prove it to you when you find it so hard to believe a striped blood washed nl can do 30k damage let alone funded. i have been on runs with nls who i have seen do 50k crit and this was months back before atk belts and atk shoe scrolls and reverse euips. but let me put it in a way that is easy to understand. (remember 50k was ages back, people could maybe do more now). 50k damage star x 2.3 thorns with ring = 115k a star. but if its like SE and add 250% rather the dealer does 250%. then its 50k damage + 105(210% thorns) = 155k star, then put in the 20% damage ring. im not sure exactly how crit and thorn works. so i apologies if im wrong. =D

AltairHawk 02/21/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] tuanjusttuan : i apologize and do not remember where i found the details on the skill, ill try find and post it up later. just to clarify to others - the maxed skill gives 35% rate and 250% damage. the one you saw was level 15, and i do not know the effects of level 15 or the full details of how this skill works and you could be right. its too early to know for sure. idk whether to be happy with thorns or to be anoyed? [/quote] Yes, please do find me a link. There is nothing on Spadow's Blog, and only an empty skill table on S0uthp3rry and Basil. I don't know where else I would look, or how reliable other places would be. And again, They probably get 35% Critical Rate for themselves, since it looked like the Bishop had barely more than 10% Rate, which he would have from his ring. I will do a thorough count right now, actually! HERE IS A THOROUGH COUNT OF CRITICAL CHANCE: -Alright, these are estimates; a lot of times something covered the numbers or they were off screen, but this should be reasonably accurate. -I counted roughly 56 Hits. -Out of these 56, I counted about 13 Critical Hits. -This gives an estimated Critical Rate of about 23.21%, including his Critical Ring; +13% with Thorns. -However, it looked like he was getting lucky some of the time; when he used Heal a lot more popped up than in the rest of the movie. -Therefore, these results are probably a little above average for him, since throughout the rest of the movie, he Crit a lot less. ACCORDING TO THE EVIDENCE, IT SEEMS LIKE THORNS ACTS EXACTLY LIKE SE, ALTHOUGH IT COULD OFFER HIGHER CRIT DAMAGE AND LOWER RATE!

My Characters: AltairHawk - 87 Bera Ranger

iBlob + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

The Bishop could be using one of the 5% crit rings giving him 25% crit rate total 10% crit ring gives 10% crit dmg 5% crit ring 20% crit dmg 15 MP -330 Crit Rate 20% 80 Seconds Crit Damage 175% 250% range From sp extract Skill tables are not empty o.O I can see the skill tables fine. Thorns Maximum Level: 30 Mastery Level: 10 1 MP -300 Crit Rate 5% 60 Seconds Crit Damage 103% 250% range 2 MP -300 Crit Rate 5% 60 Seconds Crit Damage 106% 250% range 3 MP -300 Crit Rate 5% 60 Seconds Crit Damage 109% 250% range 4 MP -300 Crit Rate 5% 60 Seconds Crit Damage 112% 250% range 5 MP -300 Crit Rate 5% 60 Seconds Crit Damage 115% 250% range 6 MP -300 Crit Rate 6% 60 Seconds Crit Damage 118% 250% range 7 MP -300 Crit Rate 7% 60 Seconds Crit Damage 121% 250% range 8 MP -300 Crit Rate 8% 60 Seconds Crit Damage 124% 250% range 9 MP -300 Crit Rate 9% 60 Seconds Crit Damage 127% 250% range 10 MP -300 Crit Rate 10% 60 Seconds Crit Damage 130% 250% range 11 MP -330 Crit Rate 15% 80 Seconds Crit Damage 155% 250% range 12 MP -330 Crit Rate 17% 80 Seconds Crit Damage 160% 250% range 13 MP -330 Crit Rate 18% 80 Seconds Crit Damage 165% 250% range 14 MP -330 Crit Rate 19% 80 Seconds Crit Damage 170% 250% range 15 MP -330 Crit Rate 20% 80 Seconds Crit Damage 175% 250% range 16 MP -330 Crit Rate 21% 100 Seconds Crit Damage 180% 250% range 17 MP -330 Crit Rate 22% 100 Seconds Crit Damage 185% 250% range 18 MP -330 Crit Rate 23% 100 Seconds Crit Damage 190% 250% range 19 MP -330 Crit Rate 24% 100 Seconds Crit Damage 195% 250% range 20 MP -330 Crit Rate 25% 100 Seconds Crit Damage 200% 250% range 21 MP -360 Crit Rate 26% 120 Seconds Crit Damage 205% 250% range 22 MP -360 Crit Rate 27% 120 Seconds Crit Damage 210% 250% range 23 MP -360 Crit Rate 28% 120 Seconds Crit Damage 215% 250% range 24 MP -360 Crit Rate 29% 120 Seconds Crit Damage 220% 250% range 25 MP -360 Crit Rate 30% 120 Seconds Crit Damage 225% 250% range 26 MP -400 Crit Rate 31% 120 Seconds Crit Damage 230% 250% range 27 MP -400 Crit Rate 32% 120 Seconds Crit Damage 235% 250% range 28 MP -400 Crit Rate 33% 120 Seconds Crit Damage 240% 250% range 29 MP -400 Crit Rate 34% 120 Seconds Crit Damage 245% 250% range 30 MP -400 Crit Rate 35% 120 Seconds Crit Damage 250% 250% range

My Characters: iDegenerated - 71 Bera White Knight