Can you "objectively" prove that 1+1=2?

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thread starter ikea12311 Feb 13 2010 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Can you?

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NapalmDe4th + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

So you want me to prove that concepts exist outside of consciousness? Er...I think that's a bit hard to do. But here we go: 1. Regardless of how you perceive things, certain things remain constant. These are called concepts. For example, even if the majority of people say I have 10 fingers, and you say I have 11 fingers, the concept of numbers remains the same. Eleven will remain eleven, even if you see one more finger in my hand than most other people do. You are still using the same system. 2. 1+1=2 defines the concept that one object and another make up what is known as '2'. It will take another object for you to make the claim that there is, in fact, 3 objects. Whether or not the 3rd object does or does not exist does not change the fact that '2' is '2' and '3' is '3'. What is questioned is your brains ability to perceive. Seems like begging the question though.

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Gaosaurusx3 02/13/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

you have one apple and i give you another apple, now you have 2 apples?

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ikea12311 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] Gaosaurusx3 : you have one apple and i give you another apple, now you have 2 apples? [/quote] one apple + one apple = one apple and one apple

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Gutanaclone 02/13/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

My mind = Blown.

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Ramunesun 02/13/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] ikea12311 : one apple + one apple = one apple and one apple [/quote] lol are you speaking in the binary number system. lol modular arithmetic.

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akAMAZING 02/13/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] ikea12311 : one apple + one apple = one apple and one apple [/quote] you have one eye, and one ear and 1 hair and 1 skin cell. etc. enjoy

CocoRoco 02/13/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] ikea12311 : one apple + one apple = one apple and one apple [/quote] No... it means two apples. You're not going with the numbering system that's why. Silly chef...

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Fade2BlacK 02/13/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Starting from Peano's axioms: The natural numbers consist of a set N together with a "sucessor function" f() such that 1. There exist a unique member of N, called "1", such that f is a bijection from N-{1} to N. 2. If a set, X, contains 1 and, whenever it contains a member, n, of N, it also contains f(n), then X= N. (This is "induction") (Historically, Peano included 0 and used 0 instead of 1.) We then define "+" by: a+1= f(a). If b is not 1 then b= f(c) for some c and a+b is defined as f(a+c). Since "2" is DEFINED as f(1), it follows that 2= f(1)= 1+ 1. A little harder is 2+ 2= 4. We DEFINE 3 as f(2) and 4 as f(3). 2= f(1) so 2+ 2= f(2+ 1). But 2+ 1= f(2)= 3 so 2+ 2= f(3)= 4! /cp

mrfong 02/13/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] ikea12311 : one apple + one apple = one apple and one apple [/quote] But in total, you have two.

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Gutanaclone 02/13/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] NapalmDe4th : So you want me to prove that concepts exist outside of consciousness? Er...I think that's a bit hard to do. But here we go: 1. Regardless of how you perceive things, certain things remain constant. These are called concepts. For example, even if the majority of people say I have 10 fingers, and you say I have 11 fingers, the concept of numbers remains the same. Eleven will remain eleven, even if you see one more finger in my hand than most other people do. You are still using the same system. 2. 1+1=2 defines the concept that one object and another make up what is known as '2'. It will take another object for you to make the claim that there is, in fact, 3 objects. Whether or not the 3rd object does or does not exist does not change the fact that '2' is '2' and '3' is '3'. What is questioned is your brains ability to perceive. Seems like begging the question though. [/quote] So 1+1=3? LOLWUT

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NapalmDe4th + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] Gutanaclone : So 1+1=3? LOLWUT [/quote] No, I said the addition of a third object would lead to the claim of there being '3' objects when the majority only sees '2'. What you perceive is in your mind (relativism, you can't really prove something exists or not), but since '2' is defined by how many objects you perceive, the concept remains the same. All that's called into question is if what you perceive is reality or not.

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c0sa 02/13/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Math is a language. It's already stated that 1+1=2. You can make your math language and say that 1+1=3; 5+8=80 000 000 000 But we have official rules here: If you have a single object, you have 1 of that object, let's call it X. If you have another X, then you have X and X. If you have more than 1, you have 1,01; 1,02; 1,03...; 2. If you have X and X, you have 2X. It's like saying Can you objectively prove that the sky is blue? You define what's sky, what's blue, and you get it.

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Koalamurder 02/13/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

[quote] Fade2BlacK : Starting from Peano's axioms: The natural numbers consist of a set N together with a "sucessor function" f() such that 1. There exist a unique member of N, called "1", such that f is a bijection from N-{1} to N. 2. If a set, X, contains 1 and, whenever it contains a member, n, of N, it also contains f(n), then X= N. (This is "induction") (Historically, Peano included 0 and used 0 instead of 1.) We then define "+" by: a+1= f(a). If b is not 1 then b= f(c) for some c and a+b is defined as f(a+c). Since "2" is DEFINED as f(1), it follows that 2= f(1)= 1+ 1. A little harder is 2+ 2= 4. We DEFINE 3 as f(2) and 4 as f(3). 2= f(1) so 2+ 2= f(2+ 1). But 2+ 1= f(2)= 3 so 2+ 2= f(3)= 4! /cp [/quote] wow this is nice :]

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SnailStomper 02/13/10 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Wow, I never realized that adding 1 and 1 was so complicated...

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