Brandish replaces Coma.Panic.Power Strike /Slash Blast?

thread starter ICutMySelfXP Aug 26 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

At what level brandish can you stop using coma and panic? Does Rush replace slash blast at lv 1? Does Brandish level one replace Power Strike? (Pretty sure it does o.o)

Senyain 08/26/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Brandish and Coma have cross-purposes that basically mean neither one really renders the other totally obsolete. I've never really bothered calculating the rates of DPS when the mob size is 4 or greater (though doing so would actually be quite easy), and Coma is mainly used on mobs that size anyway. Additionally it has the stun property. It's sort of like how Blast and Sanctuary don't come close to rendering ACB obsolete for Paladins... their purposes have nothing to do with each other. If you're going purely by one-on-one DPS then Brandish does not even replace Panic entirely when it's maxed, for boss purposes. You need some levels of Advanced Combo as well before that happens. I haven't bothered to calculate the exact level yet but I would estimate it's sometime between when you reach 7 and 8 max orbs. For training purposes you might consider keeping the orbs around anyway though, due to the multi-target function of Brandish. For Power Strike, I actually have computed this one, and I did so over a year ago. I worked out that for a Normal(6) weapon, Brandish will outdo Power Strike and Final Attack for orb-charging at level 8. This assumes you have also put one point into Advanced Combo and that your FA is maxed. For other weapon types, it should be comparable, axes probably requiring a few more levels. Slash Blast vs. Rush is again Apples and Oranges. One is used to gather mobs, the other is used to attack them faster and charge your orbs faster. Though I'm sure the damage loss compared to a high-leveled Brandish is more than enough to render SB obsolete, even with its ability to hit more targets.

EcstasyRamen 08/26/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Senyain : Brandish and Coma have cross-purposes that basically mean neither one really renders the other totally obsolete. I've never really bothered calculating the rates of DPS when the mob size is 4 or greater (though doing so would actually be quite easy), and Coma is mainly used on mobs that size anyway. Additionally it has the stun property. It's sort of like how Blast and Sanctuary don't come close to rendering ACB obsolete for Paladins... their purposes have nothing to do with each other. If you're going purely by one-on-one DPS then Brandish does not even replace Panic entirely when it's maxed, for boss purposes. You need some levels of Advanced Combo as well before that happens. I haven't bothered to calculate the exact level yet but I would estimate it's sometime between when you reach 7 and 8 max orbs. For training purposes you might consider keeping the orbs around anyway though, due to the multi-target function of Brandish. For Power Strike, I actually have computed this one, and I did so over a year ago. I worked out that for a Normal(6) weapon, Brandish will outdo Power Strike and Final Attack for orb-charging at level 8. This assumes you have also put one point into Advanced Combo and that your FA is maxed. For other weapon types, it should be comparable, axes probably requiring a few more levels. Slash Blast vs. Rush is again Apples and Oranges. One is used to gather mobs, the other is used to attack them faster and charge your orbs faster. Though I'm sure the damage loss compared to a high-leveled Brandish is more than enough to render SB obsolete, even with its ability to hit more targets. I liked it better when you were gone. D:

stfuroman 08/26/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Senyain : Brandish and Coma have cross-purposes that basically mean neither one really renders the other totally obsolete. I've never really bothered calculating the rates of DPS when the mob size is 4 or greater (though doing so would actually be quite easy), and Coma is mainly used on mobs that size anyway. Additionally it has the stun property. It's sort of like how Blast and Sanctuary don't come close to rendering ACB obsolete for Paladins... their purposes have nothing to do with each other. If you're going purely by one-on-one DPS then Brandish does not even replace Panic entirely when it's maxed, for boss purposes. You need some levels of Advanced Combo as well before that happens. I haven't bothered to calculate the exact level yet but I would estimate it's sometime between when you reach 7 and 8 max orbs. For training purposes you might consider keeping the orbs around anyway though, due to the multi-target function of Brandish. For Power Strike, I actually have computed this one, and I did so over a year ago. I worked out that for a Normal(6) weapon, Brandish will outdo Power Strike and Final Attack for orb-charging at level 8. This assumes you have also put one point into Advanced Combo and that your FA is maxed. For other weapon types, it should be comparable, axes probably requiring a few more levels. Slash Blast vs. Rush is again Apples and Oranges. One is used to gather mobs, the other is used to attack them faster and charge your orbs faster. Though I'm sure the damage loss compared to a high-leveled Brandish is more than enough to render SB obsolete, even with its ability to hit more targets. Found this useful.

Senyain 08/26/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

EcstasyRamen : I liked it better when you were gone. D: Sorry, but I'm sure there are some other people here who don't prefer when lies, unproven misinformation, exaggerated half-truths and popular guesses reign over conclusions that have actually been proven correct. Although I can comfort you with the fact that I won't be here more than a few more days, at which point you can continue to revel in the hive of ignorance that would never have produced a totally accurate response to this question unless maybe 4 or 5 people who rarely post anymore came along.

xXxShadowxXx 08/26/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

EsctasyRamen.. would you like some ice for that burn. I respect you Senyain

sufian 08/26/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Senyain : Brandish and Coma have cross-purposes that basically mean neither one really renders the other totally obsolete. I've never really bothered calculating the rates of DPS when the mob size is 4 or greater (though doing so would actually be quite easy), and Coma is mainly used on mobs that size anyway. Additionally it has the stun property. It's sort of like how Blast and Sanctuary don't come close to rendering ACB obsolete for Paladins... their purposes have nothing to do with each other. If you're going purely by one-on-one DPS then Brandish does not even replace Panic entirely when it's maxed, for boss purposes. You need some levels of Advanced Combo as well before that happens. I haven't bothered to calculate the exact level yet but I would estimate it's sometime between when you reach 7 and 8 max orbs. For training purposes you might consider keeping the orbs around anyway though, due to the multi-target function of Brandish. For Power Strike, I actually have computed this one, and I did so over a year ago. I worked out that for a Normal(6) weapon, Brandish will outdo Power Strike and Final Attack for orb-charging at level 8. This assumes you have also put one point into Advanced Combo and that your FA is maxed. For other weapon types, it should be comparable, axes probably requiring a few more levels. Slash Blast vs. Rush is again Apples and Oranges. One is used to gather mobs, the other is used to attack them faster and charge your orbs faster. Though I'm sure the damage loss compared to a high-leveled Brandish is more than enough to render SB obsolete, even with its ability to hit more targets. wow, if i could fame on basil, i would fame you, like a hundred times

Rdndede Aug 26 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Senyain : Sorry, but I'm sure there are some other people here who don't prefer when lies, unproven misinformation, exaggerated half-truths and popular guesses reign over conclusions that have actually been proven correct. Although I can comfort you with the fact that I won't be here more than a few more days, at which point you can continue to revel in the hive of ignorance that would never have produced a totally accurate response to this question unless maybe 4 or 5 people who rarely post anymore came along. lol ignore that guys comments, you give useful advice and im grateful for that =/ people would be asking questions like this everywhere. Thanks for the info it should be helpful when i get to 120 =/ hopefully if i do ^.^

CABG 08/26/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Thank you, Senyain, for your insightful comments. They are gratefully appreciated. OT - Would you therefore recommend that after putting 8 points into Brandish, you replace the SB-Coma combo attack on mobs to a Brandish-Coma combo? Does this also translate into replacing PS-Panic with Brandish-Panic on 1-2 monsters or bosses? I'm assuming at least one point in Advanced Combo.

GregRHCP 08/27/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

i think what senyain means is that brandish > powerstrike+FA at lv 8. you need to have maxed brandish and around 7 orbs before you can scrap the panic button, and idk much about how brandish+orbs weighs up against brandish+coma

Senyain Aug 27 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

The 7 orbs thing is just an estimate. I actually haven't yet worked out the exact level of Advanced Combo necessary. I was actually working on it the last time I quit the forum, but got too annoyed to post it and deleted the file. In the end the reason Brandish spamming eventually outdamages using Panic when you have some AC levels is because the Advanced Combo bonus multiplier for Brandish gets higher and higher, and at the same time as you get to higher numbers of orbs, it takes longer and longer for you to charge an optimum Panic. Meanwhile at high orb counts, Panic's damage bonus gets weaker because they didn't generalize its orb multiplier to 6-10 orbs, with the result being that at 10 orbs, it's barely stronger than at 5. If it did generalize then using Panic would dish out higher DPS than a present Hero or for that matter a Paladin vs. holy-weak boss, assuming the damage cap were increased to something over 300,000. EDIT: I just worked out the level 1 Advanced Combo mob/Coma stuff, along with doublechecking my conclusions about Brandish vs. Panic. It turns out that if we assume you're in SB's best scenario (a giant mob of more than six enemies) then using Brandish to charge for Coma will begin to outdamage using SB + FA over time when the total multiplier for its skill damage is around 6.27. This occurs once it reaches level 21 and can hit three targets, but it wins out by a huge margin once it does pass that point. For smaller mob sizes it would obviously have different requirements, most likely passing SB's charging on 2, 3 or 4 targets as early as level 11. THIS IS FOR WHEN USING BRANDISH AND COMA WILL OUTDAMAGE SLASH BLAST AND COMA ON A LARGE MOB, NOT FOR BRANDISH OUTDAMAGING COMA. As for the Panic thing, it turns out my past self had made an error in the calculations. Spamming Brandish actually does outdamage using Panic when you have level 1 Advanced Combo if Brandish has reached at least level 29.

jenny01317 08/27/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Senyain = respected math guy who we understand not what he is saying, but accept him for his long term credibility