About bossing between MMs and BMs

basilmarket.com forums : Bowman | 16 posts archived

thread starter AlwaysBowman Aug 24 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

According to this (imageshack), a level 200 Marksman does 124405 dps (Strafe+Snipe) and a level 200 Bowmaster does 135197 dps (Hurricane). Since Hurricanes damage increases constantly as he levels, and for Marksmen only Strafe's damage increases as he levels, how would the difference in damage be at, let's say, level 140, with a BM with maxed Hurricane and SE, and a MM with maxed Snipe and SE, without counting Phoenix and FP? I'm wondering this, because, since only strafe's damage increases, the damage increases slower than Hurricane because Hurricanes damage increases constantly, thus, increasing faster. This might make a MM>BM at around that level, but I'm probably wrong at this.

bored321 08/25/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Well, Timeless Crossbow CAN receive +2 on Snipe. It is possible for Sniper to have a 3 second cooldown rather than 5.

Sonicdoragon 08/25/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

bored321 : Well, Timeless Crossbow CAN receive +2 on Snipe. It is possible for Sniper to have a 3 second cooldown rather than 5. False, because there is no data for snipe 'past' lvl 30 it's just lvl 30. It'll only add points into it if the skill is at most lvl 29.

TangleViper Aug 25 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

While everyones using inaccurate dmg calculators, Im still looking for a real 160-180 Marksman to prove theyre as good at the calculations say. Still havent found one thats up to par with my BM (and Im not godly or anything). Anyone? Oh I checked the image now... Well, the gear I saw there was below average to say the least (at 200 that is) and Concentrate was off. I think the actual difference in 200 BM/MM dps is more significant. Than again you didnt include SI which might help the MM quite a bit if they manage to party a bucc... As for you question about level 140, MM should win that one.

Harun 08/25/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

didnt put SI into account.

ChopSuey 08/25/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

No BM would max Hurricane at level 140; you're better off assuming the BM having 21 Hurricane and Bow 9 Expert instead. I think with same fundings a MM would win at that level w.o apples. With apples I'm not certain on that.

Syfophalanx 08/25/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

ChopSuey : No BM would max Hurricane at level 140; you're better off assuming the BM having 21 Hurricane and Bow 9 Expert instead. I think with same fundings a MM would win at that level w.o apples. With apples I'm not certain on that. This. And ur forgetting a bm's ability to 'pin' most bosses (mobile) therefore being much more effective.

AngelxHoly 08/25/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Shoot me for saying this, but isn't it "unfair" to BM's? I mean, I know you're thinking "oh, they get everything", but MM's are meant to be the "mobbers" (shown by a BM's lack of mobbing ability). And then BM's are meant to be the "single target pros/bossers", but now MM's are equal, if not out damaging. Tell me, WHERE is the "balance" in the classes, because they've almost never been equal?

jac105 08/25/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

@above, the balance resides in the style, and so is it in the perfect condition of reaching 200. The gms would care less about the balance through the whole 1-200 gameplay. They simply check all the 200s is balanced or not, and if not equal, with some compensations. Unfair? maplestory is always unfair, look at low lvl gunslinger/archer's training, very tough, so tough that all the mages and sins laugh at us. and then look at 3rd job archers, xbows are well better off then bow. But really, I don't care, bowman fits my style and I am still willing to go on. To all bowmen out there, if u really care about dmg, gain rich first, most of the time bow are out damaged by xbow are due to the cheaper xbow scroll. hell, if u really like dmg that much, use apple all the time, I don't think anyone would keep a constant apple buff.

beere Aug 25 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

one question, how did he get the dps for every class? i mean it depends on the equpment alot. so i would really trust those numbers. i would appreciate a link to this site/calculator to see how he got his numbers. okay i can see the equips however how what weapon does he use and what ap distributation.

Desiderata03 08/25/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

AngelxHoly : Shoot me for saying this, but isn't it "unfair" to BM's? I mean, I know you're thinking "oh, they get everything", but MM's are meant to be the "mobbers" (shown by a BM's lack of mobbing ability). And then BM's are meant to be the "single target pros/bossers", but now MM's are equal, if not out damaging. Tell me, WHERE is the "balance" in the classes, because they've almost never been equal? You're right, BM are poor mobbers, that's why the only mobbing options they get are AR, Bomb, and Inferno. God! Only 3 different mob skills to choose from, that makes them so inept! MM get one good mob move in 4th job and suddenly we're supposed to be a mobbing class. Shouldn't Snipe supposedly make us a bossing class? (btw for everyone who complains about MM's new snipe, it's 4s in other versions, we've got 5s, which is a considerable difference in DPM, so complaining it got brought down from 10s (crap) isn't reasonable imo.) Not to mention, it takes 10 LEVELS to max a 30 point 4th job skill, ie. unless you're AT LEAST level 150, I don't think a bowman has the right to complain about how unfair MMs are. If MM max Snipe early, they don't have Pierce, so they're no better than BM at mobbing (except for freeze). If MM max Pierce early, they don't have Snipe meaning they don't come anywhere near touching a BMs 1v1 damage. And if they went early Snipe/Pierce together, then they have a crappy SE so parties will still probably want you more for bossing. Besides, everyone seems to neglect the fact that BMs with their good-right-away Hurricane overpowers whatever MM have for the first ~20 or more levels of 4th job. Honestly now, how many people actually get past 140? Not very many. (PS throw in the fact that Snipe SUCKS until it's leveled/almost leveled and maxing it is a huge pain.)

jac105 08/25/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

She's absolutely right. BMs are not as bad as the data shows, at lvl 120 bm owns mm big times. And BMs will catch up in 180+. the training in between 140~180 would seems a bit tough, due to the fact that snipe/se/pierce is about max. While BMs only have hurricane and SE, (i don't really count concentrate a huge bonus, the fact that it covers warrior elixir just make it bad). This is based on same funded players ofc, if u are funded, or well funded, getting better equips or even leech all the way up to 200 is no problem.

Desiderata03 Aug 25 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

jac105 : She's absolutely right. BMs are not as bad as the data shows, at lvl 120 bm owns mm big times. And BMs will catch up in 180+. the training in between 140~180 would seems a bit tough, due to the fact that snipe/se/pierce is about max. While BMs only have hurricane and SE, (i don't really count concentrate a huge bonus, the fact that it covers warrior elixir just make it bad). This is based on same funded players ofc, if u are funded, or well funded, getting better equips or even leech all the way up to 200 is no problem. I wouldn't say a 120 BM owns a MM big time, but BM do have an advantage the early levels. Your logic is flawed though. Since Snipe/SE/Pierce are all maxed in high-mid 4th job forMMs, so BM training is hard? Fact is, BMs don't really have it any tougher than any other non-magic class in 4th job. You have to remember SE + attack skill(s) put both types of archers on the upper end of 4th job DPM, so both classes are rather blessed. (which makes either class whining about how they're underpowered all the more ridiculous)

yourmommaaaa 08/25/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Considering server lag is 6-9 seconds on a marksmen, say you maple is having a bad day and you get hit with the 9 second delay. In those 9 seconds, a bowmaster could hit up to 150-200k with hurricane. And say for example the marksmen hits a summon by accident at zakum? I'm not saying that bowmasters are better, I still think marksmen are better from level 120-170 on bosses that stand still.

rasetsu24 08/25/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

bored321 : Well, Timeless Crossbow CAN receive +2 on Snipe. It is possible for Sniper to have a 3 second cooldown rather than 5. 1. Reverse and Timeless Black Beauty has a chance to get up to +2 to Piercing Arrow, not Snipe. 2. Like the poster below you mentioned, the skill cap is 30 --- not 32, not 31 --- 30. On topic, to be honest, I'd prefer if one class is better than the other on a specific area. Give it up fellow Marksmen, Bowmasters are better than us on single-target monsters on average. Our skills aren't really meant to make us high-DPS-dealers on single targets.

Desiderata03 08/25/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

rasetsu24 : On topic, to be honest, I'd prefer if one class is better than the other on a specific area. Give it up fellow Marksmen, Bowmasters are better than us on single-target monsters on average. Our skills aren't really meant to make us high-DPS-dealers on single targets. Eh, I wouldn't say we're not meant to be high DPS on 1v1, considering we do have a skill that hits 1 monster with 200k damage. IMO the BM-MM comparison falls in line rather well with the NL-Corsair DPM debate. Yeah, maybe Corsairs have a higher potential DPM (like MM at mid-4th levels) but it's a lot easier to sit in one place and hold TT (or Hurricane) than it is to manage more skills, so in the end a lot of it comes down to character control.