Final Attack Math (Mobs of 6)

basilmarket.com forums : Warrior | 15 posts archived

thread starter Camdon Aug 12 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

So I was looking at Final Attack the other day, and a random thought popped in my head. Since each attack is progessively weaker until the last hit is totally "level 20" damage all over again, I was mathing it out based on if all 6 hits total 250%. What I got was this: Solving for the initial hit, Y = Inital Hit Multiplier Y + 0.5Y + 0.25Y + 0.125Y + 0.0625Y + 0.03125Y = 2.5 1 + 0.5 + 0.25 + 0.125 + 0.0625 + 0.03125 = 2.5 / Y <- divide through by Y 1.96875 = 2.5 / Y Y = 1.2698 So this means that the first hit should be 1.2698 or 1.27% So if we plug in Y = 1.27 to the original equation we get: Calculating the other hits based off Y = 1.27 1.27 + 0.635 + 0.3175 + 0.15875 + 0.079375 + 0.0396875 = 2.5003125 % error: 2.5 / 2.5003125 X 100 = 99.9875 Therefor there is only 1% roundoff error. Rounded figures gave: 1.27 0.63 0.32 0.16 0.08 0.04 added up gives 2.50 But for some reason the distribution seems a bit off. I've seen the first hit of my FA go over the max dmg of my SB, and this is with no combo orbs, as I tested with no buffs. I'm wondering where I went wrong, or if it's correctly mathed out? I think the numbers might be off because my math assumes linear distribution of Z, Z being the 2.5 multiplier of FA's total damage. If anyone knows if its non-linear if they could post the distribution I would appreciate it.

Remington 08/12/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Why do hardcore math? FA + SB + Mob of 6 = FAIL.

mewmeister 08/12/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

To 3 significant figures; 167%, 55.6%, 18.5%, 6.18%, 2.06%, 0.687% Each hit is 1/3 as powerful as the last, not 1/2

Camdon 08/12/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

GUI based DPS calculator in the making. its not that hardcore compared to other MMOs... For saders, FA is essential to charge orbs.

mewmeister 08/12/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

If you want annoying maths, try a game where not all strength is equal (I've played a game where strength from equipment and natural stat growth acts differently from strength assigned by the player) >_>

Camdon Aug 12 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Most annoying maths is WoW. Not only is it like you mentioned, but every supplementary stat (anything not Str Dex Int Sta Spr) has diminishing returns... it sucks... PLUS the skill setup is weird. Especially with the talents and such

ZemekisFenix Aug 12 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Here's the easy method for remembering how FA works with SB. Basically, each target takes one-third of the previous target's damage. (This damage, unlike Shadow Partner, is not in direct proportion to the best of my knowledge.) Assuming max FA, the total damage is 250%. Therefore, it's a matter of merely finding out the damage taken by target #6. Break the original 250% into "shares" and grant one share to the sixth target. Then the rest is easy: Sixth target - 1 share Fifth target - 3 shares Fourth target - 9 shares Third target - 27 shares Second target - 81 shares First target - 243 shares Adding those up gives a total of 364 shares, so each share (maxed) is (250/364) = ~0.68681% of base damage. The overall result, rounded to the nearest thousandth of a percent, is 0.687%, 2.060%, 6.181%, 18.544%, 55.632%, 166.895%. As for what happens when there are fewer than six targets, the damage figures do NOT change. This does in fact render the total less than 250%. My ongoing theory is that the lowest figures are dropped first. I have seen evidence to the contrary (i.e. double digits against third target) but that could have been an optical illusion. For averaging this with Slash Blast, it's a simple matter of remembering that (when maxed at least), 3 in 8 attacks are FA and 5 in 8 are SB. So you multiply the damage for your # of targets by 3, multiply the total SB damage for those targets by 5, and divide the result by 8 to get your average percent per hit. For DPS this is necessary, to multiply by the number of attacks per second average. (If you are using unmaxed FA, then 1 / (1 + F) = ratio of attacks that are not FA, where F = the probability of FA activating. For instance, with 40% FA activation, (1/1.4) = 5/7 of attacks are SB and 2/7 are FA.) If during your little project you need help with Crusader's/Hero's iterations for Combo and Coma, feel free to email me at Anfernee82 at nospam hotmail.com. It is the same general principle I showed you for PS and Panic, except now you have to replace PS damage with SB, PS FA's damage with SB FA's damage (lol annoying for 2-5 targets), and Panic's damage with Coma. And I would like to mention for the record that while MS is relatively easy to work with (the highest-level math necessary being college-level probability theory), Crusader and early Hero figures CAN get very annoying and time-consuming. On average I can work those out in about 10-15 minutes per character or scenario. I've not had any contact at all with WoW, being uninterested to the extreme in what I've seen of the game and its gameplay, so I'm not certain how it compares to that.

taleko 08/12/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

another FA related question, does FA floolw the standard 3:2 slash:stab ratio dispite there being a different number of animations?

daniel3b 08/12/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

taleko : another FA related question, does FA floolw the standard 3:2 slash:stab ratio dispite there being a different number of animations? I know what I'm doing tomorrow! =D

gandalf0213 08/12/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

taleko : another FA related question, does FA floolw the standard 3:2 slash:stab ratio dispite there being a different number of animations? This would require long ass statistics to find out o.O, good luck to anyone who attempts to do so.

OhSoGraceful 08/13/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

ZemekisFenix : Here's the easy method for remembering how FA works with SB. Basically, each target takes one-third of the previous target's damage. (This damage, unlike Shadow Partner, is not in direct proportion to the best of my knowledge.) Assuming max FA, the total damage is 250%. Therefore, it's a matter of merely finding out the damage taken by target #6. Break the original 250% into "shares" and grant one share to the sixth target. Then the rest is easy: Sixth target - 1 share Fifth target - 3 shares Fourth target - 9 shares Third target - 27 shares Second target - 81 shares First target - 243 shares Adding those up gives a total of 364 shares, so each share (maxed) is (250/364) = ~0.68681% of base damage. The overall result, rounded to the nearest thousandth of a percent, is 0.687%, 2.060%, 6.181%, 18.544%, 55.632%, 166.895%. As for what happens when there are fewer than six targets, the damage figures do NOT change. This does in fact render the total less than 250%. My ongoing theory is that the lowest figures are dropped first. I have seen evidence to the contrary (i.e. double digits against third target) but that could have been an optical illusion. For averaging this with Slash Blast, it's a simple matter of remembering that (when maxed at least), 3 in 8 attacks are FA and 5 in 8 are SB. So you multiply the damage for your # of targets by 3, multiply the total SB damage for those targets by 5, and divide the result by 8 to get your average percent per hit. For DPS this is necessary, to multiply by the number of attacks per second average. (If you are using unmaxed FA, then 1 / (1 + F) = ratio of attacks that are not FA, where F = the probability of FA activating. For instance, with 40% FA activation, (1/1.4) = 5/7 of attacks are SB and 2/7 are FA.) If during your little project you need help with Crusader's/Hero's iterations for Combo and Coma, feel free to email me at Anfernee82 at nospam hotmail.com. It is the same general principle I showed you for PS and Panic, except now you have to replace PS damage with SB, PS FA's damage with SB FA's damage (lol annoying for 2-5 targets), and Panic's damage with Coma. And I would like to mention for the record that while MS is relatively easy to work with (the highest-level math necessary being college-level probability theory), Crusader and early Hero figures CAN get very annoying and time-consuming. On average I can work those out in about 10-15 minutes per character or scenario. I've not had any contact at all with WoW, being uninterested to the extreme in what I've seen of the game and its gameplay, so I'm not certain how it compares to that. this

Mancartia 08/13/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

taleko : another FA related question, does FA floolw the standard 3:2 slash:stab ratio dispite there being a different number of animations? 1 stab 1 slash. Good for spears (compared to PS), bad for everyone else.

ZemekisFenix 08/13/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Mancartia : 1 stab 1 slash. Good for spears (compared to PS), bad for everyone else. Actually, it's also good for swords. The damage is even between the two types of attack and I'm fairly certain stabs attack faster than slashes.

JohnPwnsJ00 08/13/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Zomg, i thought the warrior section was a bunch of nonsense. This is scary... Where's Senyain? WolfJounin? This'd be like, Epic discussion. o-o

ZemekisFenix 08/13/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

JohnPwnsJ00 : Zomg, i thought the warrior section was a bunch of nonsense. This is scary... Where's Senyain? Right here mate. And to be honest this is actually very basic material. Epic discussion would be if we started throwing in iterations for Advanced Combo.