The most underrated aspect of being a Paladin.

basilmarket.com forums : Warrior | 15 posts archived

thread starter Shassia Jul 03 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

So many arguments lately, especially in the Warrior forum. That's why I'm posting here instead of the Paladin sub-forum. -about Heaven's Hammer, its usefulness, where to max it, and how well it works at Time Temple. -about Advanced Charged Blow, its range, and comparison to Heaven's Hammer at Time Temple. -about the Paladin's ability to train at Time Temple - the wild speculation before its release and disappointment after. Through all of this, because we are so passionate about our hobby - and we are, don't deny it - it keeps getting lost that White Knights and Paladins are arguably the most flexible job in the game in regards to skill builds. We may toss around damage ranges and experience point percentages and all that, because we want to support our views intelligently. But in practice, I have many Paladin friends, and none of us have the same build. None of us had the same build as a White Knight either. Or as Pages, now that I think about it. We all have one thing in common though. We all agree that levelling is very easy. And in comparison to other jobs, inexpensive as well. And guess what? All those arguments I outline at the beginning? I'm level 134 and haven't started Advanced Charge Blow OR Heaven's Hammer. I'm going through the Time Temple right now - I'm at the second quest of the second set. I kill everything in two or three hits depending on what monster we're talking about (not counting the hourglasses which I 1 hit KO). Forget running around rushing and mobbing for me, I just kill them outright as I get to 'em before they have a chance to get a shot in. With max Holy and 24 in Blast, I got 8% an hour last night and I was socializing half the time, hanging on ladders. It's like... accidental levelling. I can't tell you how many times I'm in a "just putzing around" mode and I look down and somehow got half of a level. And guess what again. I'm most likely going to buck the traditional bossing build and forgo Stance for now. I've seen it in action at Zakum, Pap and Pianus and I'm unimpressed. I'm most likely going Maple Warrior next. Yep. People can get on their soap box and tell me how bad the Skelly Mini-dungeon will be for me with my build. You'd be right. That's why I don't go there! I don't recommend my build as a standard. There IS no standard. One point in Rush. There's your standard. It used to be 1 Rush > ACB > Holy > HH or 9 Stance or... even before the HH update, it kinda branched off crazily from there. If someone wants to be a Min/Maxer (an old pen-and-paper RPG term) and throw stats and percentages around while defending the "one right way" to make a character, do so - but we've heard it all before and you're missing my point. As long as your build has some focus, and you to play to the strength of your build... it almost doesn't matter what you max first. White Knights start with Ice or Fire, then mix Charged Blow in with the other charges, and some even go with Relax before CB or Lightning. This makes six to eight di

kevinccf 07/03/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Tidy your post up a bit more, and mark out sections with headers please :D

abnotsu Jul 03 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

hmm i wana make a page now

infferrno 07/03/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

You put some more faith in me on my Page... but not quite enough.

Csenger Jul 03 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

What's so bad about going for the fast %/h? That's like telling people to go avenger instead of shadow partner first. It's obviously different, but also not as good. Is it really flexibility? Or is it a lack of a main move that creates the flexibility?

Shassia Jul 03 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Csenger said: "What's so bad about going for the fast %/h? That's like telling people to go avenger instead of shadow partner first. It's obviously different, but also not as good. Is it really flexibility? Or is it a lack of a main move that creates the flexibility?" 1) Nothing is wrong in trying to maximize your xp per hour. However, it's my opinion that Paladins have more options to do this. 2) I emphasize many times that a build needs to have a focus. I think I was clear in making the distinction between flexibility and choosing skills at random as if they don't matter. Your "Shadow Partner" scenario is taking your argument to the extreme. I wouldn't advocate doing that any more than I would advocate going with Stance first. 3) Perhaps it is a lack of a main move that creates the flexibility. Does it matter? *shrugs*

s1rmuffin 07/03/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Im a lvl 123 paladin in scania and yeah paladins are fun they can practically train anywhere, We may not be party friendly but they cant say were weak, i think paladin is the strongest of the 3 warrior classes

abnotsu 07/03/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

s1rmuffin said: "Im a lvl 123 paladin in scania and yeah paladins are fun they can practically train anywhere, We may not be party friendly but they cant say were weak, i think paladin is the strongest of the 3 warrior classes" you lost me at the "strongest" part

infferrno 07/03/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

How are we (Still count myself as a Page) the most maneuverable? Same could be said for DKs and Saders. DKs can go either Spear/PA Crusher/Fury, Dragon Roar, Dragon Blood, etc... first depending on what they want. Saders can go Combo then any of their other moves. So basically, WKs DON'T have the most choices. Also, how can we train in the most variety of areas? We are STUCK at elemental weak areas. Oh and BTW... AMs can KS us there too... While Saders/DKs can go to Neutral or Elemental weak areas... I agree that WKs are a pretty nice class, but in no way are they the most versatile... (Not flaming, just pushing my point across)

adripe 07/03/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

It deffinitely is the strongest of all warriors!

infferrno 07/03/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

adripe said: "It deffinitely is the strongest of all warriors!" On fire(sometimes)/lightening/holy weak... yes... otherwise...

adripe 07/03/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Holy charge works very well in an endless amount of places!

Shassia Jul 03 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

infferrno said: "How are we (Still count myself as a Page) the most maneuverable? Same could be said for DKs and Saders. DKs can go either Spear/PA Crusher/Fury, Dragon Roar, Dragon Blood, etc... first depending on what they want. Saders can go Combo then any of their other moves. So basically, WKs DON'T have the most choices. Also, how can we train in the most variety of areas? We are STUCK at elemental weak areas. Oh and BTW... AMs can KS us there too... While Saders/DKs can go to Neutral or Elemental weak areas... I agree that WKs are a pretty nice class, but in no way are they the most versatile... (Not flaming, just pushing my point across)" No, I know you're not flaming, but thanks. Discussion is good, that's what we're here for. =) Addressing your last point first - I agree with you 100% that low-level White Knights are limited in their training areas, because they need to exploit whatever weakness their build leans to. This becomes less of an issue as you advance, though. You can have all the charges maxed by level 100 if you want, and then can max Holy as a Paladin. By then, there's plenty of choices. But I haven't tried to make the argument that we are the most flexible in the number of training areas. I'm talking about character builds. Now for your original point, and this is a tough one to answer. The reason is, it's a slippery slope argument to actually list the individual builds for each class, because you will then branch off into many sub-arguments about which builds are actually viable. I have dabbled in all of the Warrior jobs (and Brawlers which almost play like Warriors) and I will stand by my assessment that Paladins have arguably the most career choices available to them from start to finish. I approach things from a Paladin point of view, though, for obvious reasons. =) What I don't want to get lost in all this is that there's been an awful lot of whining from some Paladins lately. We have so many ways to get the job done that there's no need to focus in on one skill or one area. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

infferrno Jul 03 2009 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

Shassia said: "No, I know you're not flaming, but thanks. Discussion is good, that's what we're here for. =) Addressing your last point first - I agree with you 100% that low-level White Knights are limited in their training areas, because they need to exploit whatever weakness their build leans to. This becomes less of an issue as you advance, though. You can have all the charges maxed by level 100 though if you want, and then can max Holy as a Paladin. By then, there's plenty of choices. But I haven't tried to make the argument that we are the most flexible in the number of training areas. I'm talking about character builds. Now for your original point, and this is a tough one to answer. The reason is, it's a slippery slope argument to actually list the individual builds for each class, because you will then branch off into many sub-arguments about which builds are actually viable. I have dabbled in all of the Warrior jobs (and Brawlers which almost play like Warriors) and I will stand by my assessment that Paladins have arguably the most career choices available to them from start to finish. I approach things from a Paladin point of view, though, for obvious reasons. =) What I don't want to get lost in all this is that there's been an awful lot of whining from some Paladins lately. We have so many ways to get the job done that there's no need to focus in on one skill or one area. One person's trash is another man's treasure." In terms of Character builds. Each class can dilly dally with their builds. But what we should focus on is the right build. For WKs, it's most likely Fire due to the wide variety of training areas. After that, it boils down to the other things. Same thing could be said for the others. Orbs for Saders then whatever they want. Fury/Crusher for DKs and then DR, DB, whatever... I also agree that Paladins are whining... I used to respect my class (Well old as I'm quitting my Page) for their steadfast ways and how they used to blow past obstacles... If you have a problem with your class deal with it... I have. So all in all, I guess my trash is your treasure. Have fun on your Pallie. I'll be on my new Spearman.

geovanny7 07/03/09 + PM | QUOTE | PERMALINK | REPORT

:D im soon to be a pally 3more lvls